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Old 09-24-2010, 09:10 PM
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Default Does anyone think Baclofen is addictive

I keep reading that Baclofen is not addictive but why, I don't know.

It seems to have all the attributes of an addictive drug:

Build up tolerance that's why we cannot start at the 'switch' dosage

Dependence and severe withdrawal symptoms

Pleasant sensations. For me at least, sometimes intense peace and calm, sometimes euphoria. Maybe this is where peoples opinion differ. But I can see using this to increase my high when I'm drinking, for instance.

I'm not saying its a bad addiction but where do do the statements about being non addictive come from?
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:18 PM
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Clipped from an website for (opiate) pain management:

Breaking Down The Terms: Definitions Of Addiction/Dependency

Although sometimes used interchangeably, the terms “addiction” and “dependency” are clinically thought of as two separate things. The National Institutes of Health says drug addiction is present when a person compulsively uses a drug despite negative and dangerous consequences and effects. A physical drug dependence means a person needs the substance to function and can have intense cravings, according to the organization.

Addiction does not always entail dependence. For example, some blood pressure medications can cause physical dependence but don’t lead to addiction, it says, and drugs like cocaine can be addicting without physical dependence. Withdrawing from cocaine can produce depression and other psychological changes, but don’t leave users with physical problems such as chills and other flu-like symptoms. The American Academy of Pain Medicine, the American Pain Society and the American Society of Addiction Medicine, in a collaborative effort, have adopted the following definitions:

*Addiction: “Addiction is a primary, chronic, neurobiologic disease, with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. It is characterized by behaviors that include one or more of the following: impaired control over drug use, compulsive use, continued use despite harm, and craving.”

*Physical dependence: “Physical dependence is a state of adaptation that is manifested by a drug class specific withdrawal syndrome that can be produced by abrupt cessation, rapid dose reduction, decreasing blood level of the drug, and/or administration of an antagonist.”

Addiction is a chronic disorder with a strong potential for relapse. This means users who are trying to get clean fall back into old patterns of drug use and abuse. Because opiates are so potent, they have a particularly high relapse rate. Strong cravings and other withdrawal symptoms can trigger relapse, even after a period of abstinence.
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I've experienced some euphoria on baclofen, a little mania, and some reduction of anxiety at different times. I haven't read of many reports in this forum people of enjoying the baclofen experience recreationally. Many of us have had a rocky road with the hope of being able to titrate down to a reasonable maintainance dose after we reach our "switch". I'm also physically dependent on 2 blood pressure medications (one of which has a short half life which my doctor assures me that I'll have a great risk of a cardiac episode if I quit taking it cold turkey) - That doesn't make me a blood pressure medicine addict. Hope that clears that up -tk

Last edited by terryk : 09-25-2010 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 10:51 PM
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It sort of takes some of my fears away.
But this is the National Institutes definition. There are many other views. I don't think it feels exactly the same as the drugs I've been addicted to. You don't get the immediate "fix" and the the results you do eventually get are variable.
Do you do research for a living or somthink.......?
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:08 PM
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I'm a xxxxxxxx. -tk

Last edited by terryk : 09-27-2012 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 11:55 PM
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Nice job, I should imagine. Lot of time out from all the bullshit.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:19 AM
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Not really. Lots of stress, worry and physical pain. Guess the grass is always greener.... Anyway to get back to the original question, a substance is considered addictive when your body becomes tolerant to it and dependent on it and you need more and more of it to get the desired effects from it despite the other negative impacts it has on your (physical, psychological, social) health. Baclofen is not addictive because it has no real recreational potential, and (according to much anecdotal evidence) after a threshold dose is achieved to alleviate cravings, one can readily titrate down to a lower maintenance dose. The maintenance dose is an interesting and unique aspect of many of the baclofen success stories related on this forum (I have to keep taking the same dose of my blood pressure medication - and even increase it as my body gets older - to achieve a safe, healthy blood pressure)

Last edited by terryk : 09-25-2010 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:48 AM
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According to all the doctors I have consulted, and all the myriads of medical literature relating to this medication, and from the decades of experience doctors have had using baclofen at HIGH DOSES for other ailments than alcoholism, Baclofen does not have any of the "attributes of an addictive drug".

From my understanding, *tolerance* (in terms of drugs) means that the body reaches a certain level from the drug, at which level the desired effect is achieved. After this desired effect is achieved, the body needs ever higher levels of the said drug to achieve the same desired effect.

However, once the desired effect (the so-called "switch") is achieved with baclofen, the body does not need ever larger doses to achieve the same effect. In fact, after the body achieves the desired effect, it needs lower and lower doses to achieve the same effect.

In all the decades of medical experience using baclofen to treat other ailments (MS, spasticity, and epilepsy, for example), there has never been reported (to my knowledge) a development of "tolerance" to the drug. In other words, once the desired effect is achieved, the patient never needs or craves more of the drug.

As for the "pleasant sensations", from my own, and most others' experience here, the "pleasant sensations" decrease as the dosage levels of baclofen increase. So, enjoy it while you can.

Most people experience mild to severe side effects at higher dosages, and yet persevere in their desperate need to rid themselves of alcohol dependency. This normally requires a great deal of "will power" and does not develop into a need or desire for the drug... in fact, quite the opposite.

Any drug or medication taken at high dosages requires a tapering down period rather than stopping the medication suddenly. Withdrawal symptoms from stopping any drug are common and do not indicate "addiction".

Edit: I took out the part about "addiction" and "dependence" because terry had already said it.

Last edited by beatle : 09-25-2010 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 02:11 AM
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If I have to remember to take it, I don't think it is addictive. I certainly don't forget to drink.
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Old 09-25-2010, 04:12 AM
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"Grass is greener" I hear that.
Half the definitions for addiction include something about "despite negative effects", the other half don't. At present we also don't know what negative consequences there could be at prolonged high dose usage.

Recreational use is a possibility at the stage I find myself at.

Yesterday while sipping on my half bottle of whiskey in a bar I wished I had my bac on me so I could take a few more and reach the numbness, for which I crave, sooner. Potential for recreational use very speculative but a possibility none the less.

I think tolerance to the drug is implicit in the method we use to administrate it. If one didn't need to build up tolerance then everybody would start with 150mg; hit the switch and go down to a maintenance dose; if not try 250mg and so on.

Likewise dependence is implied by a maintenance dose.
I am playing devil's advocate but at the risk of being pedantic I would say it has many of the "attributes of an addictive drug".

I think the main difference is the "switch": which I'm just taking on good faith to actually happen. Does the so called "switch" happen with other drugs. Certainly not with the recreation drugs I've been into.

The decades of experience have been at relatively low doses. What about 1000mg at one time. Maybe get high? Maybe need more to get that high the next time.

And muchthought - I hope so and think probably so.

Last edited by ignominous : 09-25-2010 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ignominous View Post
"Grass is greener" I hear that.
Half the definitions for addiction include something about "despite negative effects", the other half don't. At present we also don't know what negative consequences there could be at prolonged high dose usage.
That could very well be interpreted as "despite known negative effects", as demonstrated in most typical "addiction" cases.
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