Hospitalization and baclofen

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Can anyone find the thread related to the subject and bump it? Otter wrote it. It's about how to get treatment when in the hospital--specifically related to baclofen withdrawal and benzos, from what I remember?
I'm on my phone and searching is harder than starting a thread. It's kind of important.
I'm fine.
Thanks.

[RedThread12]

I don't remember Otter's thread, Ne. I do remember bits and pieces from several others. When LoOp was in the hospital #1 challenge was to get the docs to continue his HDB. #2 was that opiate-based pain-killers didn't work, and he was in extreme pain.

Then there was - I don't remember his name, but he saved my ass - who OD'd on baclofen and went to the ER. A horror story ensued from there. They administered valium instead of baclofen, which was apples and oranges and had no effect. Result being that, in the hospital, he went into full baclofen withdrawal - could not get them to give him baclofen to relieve it, had seizures, was tied down, whole bad nine yards. Wound up being in the hospital for a month.

Benzos don't work for baclofen withdrawal. Titrating down works for decreasing baclofen use. Including OD'ing on bac. Been there. Done that. Because of these threads, when I OD'd I did the most counter-intuitive thing I could imagine - I took more baclofen. Came through it in about 8-10 hours.

Whatever the reason your person is in the hospital, someone has to get an authority there to understand that benzos ARE NOT an alternative for baclofen, nor a way to decrease baclofen use. H/She should be given whatever dose of baclofen they are accustomed to. If the issue is to reduce baclofen, titrate down from there.

Someone posted asking for help because she was having bac withdrawals while in the hospital for something completely unrelated because they would not prescribe the levels she was accustomed to taking.

Those are the things I remember about baclofen and hospitals, which is why I DID NOT GO when I overdosed. You may be right - Otter may have posted something completely different, and knowing Otter, far more technical and accurate. Give him a PM.

[spacebebe01]

Can you find it if you click on otter then click on find all post from otter in the drop down? not sure if you cant do this on your phone so i will try it for you now and let you know

[spacebebe01]

or can you pm him or do you want me to, also any idea how long ago this was on its a lot of post to search through

[RedThread12]

cOffee - his name was cOffee and he made a long post about intense experiences, seizures, hallucinations, etc., when they tried to use benzos to help his bac withdrawal. I can't find the thread right now, but that's the name, if anyone can look for it.

The thing that impressed me most was that, even after all that, which took a month to resolve, he came back to MWO and was determined to reach his switch with baclofen.

[gotta stop]

starting over- IMHO, baclofen should be monitored by an MD and not taken upon oneself
Dont know if this works

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Thanks so much, folks. No one is in the hospital. As you pointed out, it's to be avoided. But it might be necessary.
I am home now and will go looking. It was right around then, RedT and related. Otter found a study, some research.

Originally Posted by Bluto

Ne/neva

There is no way that a benzo will not cure a baclofen withdrawal if properly dosed. Its just not possible, unless given likek 5 mg of valium when a 40mg IV push is needed lol

Interestingly, Bluto, that is exactly what the situation is. Benzos do not work for bac withdrawal. I'll find it. Everyone on HDB should have a copy. I made my husband put one in each car and keep one at work. (Yes, I was a bit dramatic. And very scared. And pretty silly. But not about that!)

Originally Posted by gotta stop

starting over- IMHO, baclofen should be monitored by an MD and not taken upon oneself
Dont know if this works

It worked. Thanks, Gotta! Great to *see* you! Hope you're well. We're due for an update...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

hmmm. I think he may have erased it. hmmmm.

Terryk, do you remember the study I'm talking about?

I'm going to have to pull out my trusty bac notebook! The one I compiled while on super-HDB. Might take me a week to find that particular thing. But everyone on HDB should be aware!

[terryk]

Originally Posted by Bluto

dude, the guys a freaking liar lol
none of that story makes an ounce of medical sense
"they put me out with propanolol... because the phenobarbital wasnt touching it"

Yeah so he got knocked out with a betablocker as a last resort, my arse.
The WHOLE of the story is rubbish lol

The whole story is quite true - he probably meant propofol, not propanolol. GABAa agents will not not touch GABAb withdrawal unless given in 10X-100X strengths that is given in GABAa withdrawal. Haloperidol is often used as well. Cyproheptadine shows promise as well, but nothing works like reinstituting the GABAb agent. It's all over the medical literature and I have done extensive research on it. I have also been hospitalized for baclofen overdose/psychosis and my dose was vastly restricted which induced withdrawal. I don't have the time right now, but I will post more in detail later if anyone would like specifics.

-tk

[terryk]

Originally Posted by Bluto

I dont get it, scientifically how does a benzodiazepine not help with baclofen withdrawal?
Not to be a dick, far from it. I just cant wrap my head around using a benzodiazepine and it NOT being effective for baclofen withdrawal, seeing how it is the gold standard for GABA withdrawals, much better than baclofen

Originally Posted by Bluto

Ne/neva
What they should do is put your friend on a long acting benzo such chlordiazepoxide (librium) or diazepam (valium) anything with a long half life.

I dont know about the other stuff, but benzos bind to the GABAa receptor and decrease the excitability of of the GABA system at a much higher level than a GABAb such as baclofen.
Baclofen is the kid brother to Valium or Xanax.
There is no way that a benzo will not cure a baclofen withdrawal if properly dosed. Its just not possible, unless given likek 5 mg of valium when a 40mg IV push is needed lol

Originally Posted by Bluto

Well people on the interwebs can spin a yarn, thats for sure. Its still not possible lol.
Maybe he was overdosing on cough medicine at the time or truly is schizophrenic

But you cant selectively blame a GABAb when you can decrease the excitability of the WHOLE GABA system with a benzo
It makes no sense whatsoever. The treatment for baclofen withdrawal is a benzo, its faster and better than baclofen alone. Its well proven, anectdotes aside

I'll bow out of this one though, I am here to have fun you guys are in charge on this stuff

Originally Posted by Bluto

dude, the guys a freaking liar lol
none of that story makes an ounce of medical sense
"they put me out with propanolol... because the phenobarbital wasnt touching it"

Yeah so he got knocked out with a betablocker as a last resort, my arse.
The WHOLE of the story is rubbish lol

Originally Posted by Bluto

no dude, I know its a lie b/c I wrote the damn thing when I was shitfaced and I made no sense after reading it
It's not real, I was drunk when I wrote it

I don't know what to think right now about you. There is *absolute* truth to what *I* said: Benzos will not touch (possibly and barely only at extreme dose) Baclofen withdrawal, and you *may* still find yourself in a hospital ER someplace where a doctor will not be able to give you HDB, because they are unaware of it's use or because you are unconscious and there is *no* currently available liquid formulation for IV use.

-tk

p.s. I'm off to the gym and away from this place for a while. Bluto - learn a little bit about GABAb/Baclofen on wikipedia and learn how to search MEDLINES with PubMed. If you've actually left bullshit posts on the forum, do us all a favor and clean them off for the rest of us to not step in them.