2 articles on the moderation/abstinence debate

[out]

AA Alternatives: Moderation Management (#2 in a series)

Dean's World: AA Alternatives: Moderation Management (#2 in a series)

This one focuses on MM and audrey kishline. audrey was the founder of MM much maligned by 12 step leaders after her well publicised drunk driving accident in which she killed 2 people. what most people don't know is that she had resigned from MM and went into AA and was currently following the 12 step program when she had her accident. She is held up as the preeminant example of why any program that allows moderation as an option or views it as a successful outcome are wrong, but as you will read there are some serious zealots who refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings in their own program. By the way I don't think one way is better than the other, we all have to figure it out for ourselves. I can just say that for me personally I am less skeptical of programs that offer me more options than less. The editorial and subsequent disscusion here I thought was interesting. hope you do too.

Is moderation a legitimate outcome in alcohol treatment?
Is moderation a legitimate outcome in alcohol treatment? Many would consider anything short of total abstinance as a goal for a heavy drinker to be a failure. “The person was a heavy drinker, now they are a moderate drinker. They are still drinki

more research based article

[miss m]

Greetings Girls

I find this whole moderation idea confusing. The part of me who wants to drink less needs some strategies or guidelines as to what is acceptable. I have it in my own mind that I would be happy if I didn't drink during the week - only Friday, Saturday & Sunday night. Should there be a cap on how much I drink on these nights. Does anyone have a recipe that worked for them they would like to share? As I'm sure you know, it's hard when you love the taste, the sense of relaxation it brings, holding a glass in your hand, the labels on the bottles, the confidence it gives you, in fact all parts of drinking wine, wine, wine.

miss m

[luCKy]

Most moderation programs, MWO and MM included, suggest a minimum of 30 days alcohol free. Then you will have a clearer head and can make that decision. Some plan to do 30 days and feel so good about the control they gained, they keep the momentum going. Some can then have a drink and stop.

Remember that to be successful, you must replace the drinking with a new and healthy behavior.

All the best-

[Marshy]

Hi Out,

It's funny that at the end of the first article the author says that "dissing" any alcohol treatment programme isn't helpful, and yet that's exactly what he's done to AA throughout! Yep, there are zealots on all sides.

I think the most important thing is for people to be absolutely honest with themselves about whether they are capable of cutting down or moderating. The "rules" in these articles about moderating seem very tough - writing down why you want a drink and what the consequences might be before having one, and then if you want another (but certainly not less than one hour after the first one!) having to write it all down again. That would take any "fun" out of it for me, but if that works for some people good luck to them.

For the record, I know I can't moderate. If I start drinking, I don't stop. But it's taken me quite a few years to admit that to myself or anyone else. Honesty is key. And then people can work on whichever system works best for them.

[FloridaBoy]

Originally Posted by Marshy

Hi Out,

It's funny that at the end of the first article the author says that "dissing" any alcohol treatment programme isn't helpful, and yet that's exactly what he's done to AA throughout! Yep, there are zealots on all sides.

I think the most important thing is for people to be absolutely honest with themselves about whether they are capable of cutting down or moderating. The "rules" in these articles about moderating seem very tough - writing down why you want a drink and what the consequences might be before having one, and then if you want another (but certainly not less than one hour after the first one!) having to write it all down again. That would take any "fun" out of it for me, but if that works for some people good luck to them.
For the record, I know I can't moderate. If I start drinking, I don't stop. But it's taken me quite a few years to admit that to myself or anyone else. Honesty is key. And then people can work on whichever system works best for them.

I cannot moderate either. It took a long time for me to realize it but I can deal with it. I agree self honesty is the key to success. For me, doing the above would be a disaster and I would end up hating myself again.

[Lila]

I love this guy Anthony de Mello, a Jesuit priest - love his books. He says -
"Anytime you renounce something you are tied forever to the thing you renounce. There's a guru in India who says "Every time a prostitute comes to me, she's talking about nothing but God. She says I'm sick of this life I am living. I want God. But every time a priest comes to me he's talking about nothing but sex.'...As long as you fight something you're giving it power..."
That is from his book Awareness:The Perils and Opportunities of Reality.
I know everyone can't moderate, but I really love this guy.
Lila

[out]

I will definately look him up. That is how I think or try to think also. No matter what, I beleive that moderation is possible...I also believe it is a personal choice. For me I don't just want to end the abusive drinking I want to end the all or nothing thinking that permeates many areas of my life. For me, I think applying the all or nothing thinking to my drinking, just stresses me out, makes the obsessivesnes worse etc. I think this priest is very wise.