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Changeling
November 6th, 2007, 05:48 AM
I bought this book - interested to look at the AA point of view.
I have really enjoyed/conected with the stories at the end of the book, and have read some of them over and over.
But
Cannot begin to relate to the first chapters.
I had no idea it was so heavily GOD weighted.

I want to stop drinking, not change my whole life, value system, beliefs etc etc.

I really hope this post won't offend any AA supporters - the philosophy of people who want to stop drinking/have stopped getting together and supporting eachother really appeals to me and makes lots of sense.
I would be interested to hear others views.
Changeling 14 days AF

Finding My Self
November 6th, 2007, 06:26 AM
Changeling - I think we have very similar views on AA then! I am much happier here...but I had the Big Book too.....which scared the pants off me (even though the God bit isn't a 'problem' for me).

However, I think those last chapters really, really helped in the early days....real people's real stories.

Now, I am very happy here...real people's real stories without the feeling I'm 'doing life' in a dark, secret cupboard!!!

Good luck to you - really good luck.
FMS xx

hippie37
November 6th, 2007, 06:46 AM
AA recovery

Good morning Changeling!

first off congrats. on staying sober for 14 days. I have a very negative opinion concerning AA and it's methods etc which I think a lot of people do on here which is basically WHY we are here in the first place. I know there will be many more posts to follow highlighting this which I believe will not do any good. What is right for you is the most important thing here and sharing negative thoughts concerning our methods will not be good for anyone. You have many choices concerning your sobriety and if you find AA is right for you then go for it. I believe, in this country, AA will always be the first point of call for people who wish to abstain totally and are in immediate need of help. I did so myself many years ago now and I got the help I needed. My philosophies concerning AA and the 12 step recovery program though lead me to discontinuing along those paths. It was my choice to do so as it was my choice to seek help from AA in the first place. Listen to what your own feelings are telling you about this and no-one else's. It's your sobriety and you have to do what is right for YOU!.

Love and Happiness
Hippie
xx

CaptJBean
November 6th, 2007, 07:03 AM
AA is not a problem... the Big Book is not a problem... I just had a problem going in to a room and labeling myself.
If I can humble myself on my knees before God and turn my life over to Him. I knew that between God and myself, together we could handle this, with the support online!!!!
Why then do I need to go into a room, that is sometimes full of people smoking, drowning themselves in caffeine, and eating tons of sugar and donuts... all of them crying.
It's true you have to find a good meeting... and that can be a good support group. For me, I had found a really great Monday Morning Woman Bible Study. We met from 7 to 8 every Monday in this one gals home. It was the best way to start off the week.
Anyway... back to the God thing. I know I don't have to carry the burden of life on my own shoulders... and I don't have to get drunk over them either. For me.... and that's not for everyone... and I respect that... it works.
Most meetings I had gone to, they just referred to God as a Higher Power... it could be your bicycle for all they cared about.
I'm glad you brought it up. It is an interesting read. However, I prefer RJ's book. That's what motivated me!!!

lucky 2.0
November 6th, 2007, 10:15 AM
I detest AA.

Finding My Self
November 6th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Aw, Lucky!! Get to the point why dontya!!!!! :H
FMS xxx

start over
November 6th, 2007, 09:01 PM
Changeling AA helped me tremendously when I needed it the most years ago. I bought into the whole program and stayed sober for 2 1/2 years (best years of my life). I went to meetings, I ran meetings, went to 12 step seminars ect. I was so desparate and confused because I could not convience myself I was a full blown alcoholic. I had a great job, a good family, money in the bank ect. But with their hard love they convinced me that I was 1 car accident away from losing it all and killing someone which had always been my biggest fear. Although I was better off than most of the people going there financially I was still a drunk just like everyone else. I never did get through all the steps and agree with most of the other comment that AA is not for me now. But that is because they showed me who I was and why I would never be able to drink normally again. I have 3 day AF and since my falling off the wagon 3 years ago have been some what MODS but all that means is now I blackout once a month instead of 3 time a week like it was before AA. I guess I will never stop drinking but I have learned to but myself out of harms way when I do. I just need to sober up for 30 days and see where that leads me. As in AA "thanks for letting me share".

Roz
November 10th, 2007, 08:21 AM
I have been a member of MWO since late August. This is my first real attempt at sobriety. Since I have started, I frequent the threads and have been reading books on alcoholism and memoirs of alcoholics. When I started with MWO I was against AA for its religious component. I am not a church goer but I do feel that I am just as religious as a person who does go to church. I have always been offended by people who try to shove religion down your throat and judge individuals who don't go to church. MWO has helped me see AA in a different light. I have met people on MWO who have been to AA and have read memoirs of AA members. These individuals have quit drinking for long periods of time. Isn't that what it's all about? Alcoholics just want to find a way to quit! I hesitate to say quit drinking completely because that is a life long committment - a personal struggle.

I like MWO because I live in a small town and have privacy issuses. I like to read the threads and talk in the chat room. However, sometimes when I REALLY need to chat, people aren't there for me to chat with and for a newbie like myself - talking out a craving is crucial. At AA, you can always find a meeting, listen to other people's experiences and talk to people. So, to sum up a very long message, there are pros and cons to both programs. Like I said earlier, just find a way to quit. That's all that matters.

CaptJBean
November 10th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Start Over... I agree.... AA helped me too. Finding just the right meeting that you can connect with made all the difference.
I like where I'm at now. I also like the cognitive therapy of Albert Ellis. Let's face it, meds isn't going to do it all. What triggers the drinking and how to avoid those triggers.

meditation mama
November 10th, 2007, 08:48 AM
The stories are like all the stories you will find anywhere with peolple that have struggles with alcohol. Read the stories here - you will find the same likeness.

My problem with AA (and I have gone, so I can speak from experience), is that I feel like there is no way to "recover". "Once a drunk always a drunk" was one of the most horrible things I think I ever heard. Having to stand up and put a lable on myself "I am an alcoholic". That is not my belief. "I drink alcohol". That is my truth. I want to learn how to understand alcoholism, use my spirituality, recover from this, move on and live my life. Not spend the rest of my life listening to the same stories, clutching on to the same past hurtful experiences that brought me into a roomfull of grasping desparates that in many cases do not want to recover. I found while I was in those rooms that I was the only one going to a councelor. Trying to really get to the bottom of what was going on with me. Most were just showing up, day after day, telling the same stories in different formats.

The Big Book, in it's essence is saying what a lot of other religions are saying. Unfortunately, that message got lost by the zelots running the coffee rooms...

Just my opinion.

MM

lucky 2.0
November 10th, 2007, 10:27 AM
TK- what is the name of the book you are reading?

trixietrack
November 12th, 2007, 03:15 PM
yuck AA is like accepting that you are a failure and will never be able to lead a life where you are in control of yourself and your spirit.
F#$Ck that!

We have a will for F#@#$c sake

janka
November 13th, 2007, 06:10 AM
My husband is an AA fascist ... absolutely hate it because it is so rigid, self-righteous and operates on motivating people by fear!!! Fear creates anxiety for me, which ... guess what? ... led to drinking! Anyway. glad it works for some, for me MWO is a way better program.

Mags
November 14th, 2007, 10:10 PM
I'm sure AA works for some and that's fine with me. I went to meetings a few years ago and someone gave me the big book. I tried hard to make AA work, but I always hated the meetings. The book was horrible and I kept trying to read it and just couldn't finish it. To me, it was very anachronistic, out of date, demeaning to women, etc. I could not relate to anything in it. I tried, but just couldn't relate to it. I guess some people can and do, but not me.

lucky 2.0
November 15th, 2007, 01:08 AM
As many know, I detest AA and think it is evil.

beatle
November 19th, 2007, 05:41 AM
I have always rebelled against anything or anyone telling me "the way" to do anything. I've been to a couple AA meetings years ago, before I had developed a serious drinking problem (I went with a friend, as a visitor). As far as I could tell, it was a cult and all the members were mostly brainwashed. My rebellious side made me go get drunk after each meeting. That was years ago.

Years later, after my little drinking problem devoped into a full-fledged one, I looked into AA more closely. I did extensive research, and my conclusion is the same. AA is a cult and its adherents are mostly brainwashed.

There are no statistics whatsoever that show good long-term results from AA and the 12-step programme (only anectodal "evidence"). In fact, statistics available about recovery rates from rehab programmes using the 12-step programme show miserable long-term recovery rates. AA itself admits that only about 5% of its members make it one year. Many other rehab programmes (not using the 12-steps) have FAR better results.

The only way that AA has managed to virtually take over all alcohol recovery and rehab programmes in the world is the same way cults convert.

For more interesting and detailed reading on this, I suggest everyone see:

Orange Papers (http://www.orange-papers.org)

OK, that said, I have also found the stories in the big book interesting. And, like Hippie and others say, everyone should do whatever they feel is best for them to help stay sober, and if AA does it for them, more (greater) power to them.

less desperate
November 19th, 2007, 06:53 AM
I have real problems with AA too. I've gone to meetings, and during the time I was in rehab, I went to AA meetings then too. I'll never forget one speaker looking at the audience of addicts in rehab and telling us not even a fourth of us would ever become sober. I think it was meant as a scare tactic, but all it did for me was reaffirm that something had to be terribly wrong with a program that had such bad results.

Something else: I felt worse after meetings, because I had to tell a room full of strangers I was an alcoholic, and that was my entire identity. Night after night after night. Plus, those were some pretty depressed people. No one ever talked about the health aspects of alcohol dependence, or how taking vitamins and supplements could help you feel better. Some of those people hadn't had a drink in a while, and they really seemed pretty miserable.

There was never any talk of alternative medicine, and if you admitted talking medication there was a real disapproval. I think the organization is well intentioned, but I agree it is a cult. I still go to one particular meeting now and then, but I feel increasing pressure from the group to become one of them. And that's just not something I can do.

P.S. Plus I hate being part of groups for the most part.