Why?

[Determinatrix]

It is sometimes difficult for me to share here. because I know Det really needs this place more than I.
I don't want to blow his cover, but I feel I am in crisis.

As you all know, Det has been having a hard time. He overdid on Sat at a party.
No big deal, really. Just one night; he has to be free to fall down and learn what his boundaries are.

The problem is that he continued to drink all Sun, and I was finally able to convince him to stop that night.
He was in a bad condition, but thankfully no dt's.
I gave him librium and Vit B1 & C and took blood pressure tests often.
He went 2 days AF.

Then tonight Tues. He has had emotional and angry outbursts.
He wanted to drink. He was very upset.
I know when I need to leave him alone. I finally said - do what you're gonna do.
I could not convince him not to drink.

We missed the chance to stop his normal pattern to not make himself very sick.
The next week will be tough. I have blood pressure meds and librium on hand.

We have had talks about his thoughts on what AF means to him.
What is so bad about being someone who doesn't drink?
He considers it equal to leprosy; a social outcast.
He is more afraid of being "that guy" than sick and dead.
It breaks my heart that he is not ready to be free.

Why risk the great things in life?
Someone please explain to me why?

I just miss him.

[bootcampbarbie]

Why?

ah my friend. my dearest dearest dex. i was just heading to bed when i saw this. you know the wounds from his past seem to bubble up at times. well feels like it in reading what he is sharing. sometimes those wounds are simply so very unbareable there is no system to put it back on track. i know this is so tough for you as well i've sponsored many a soul but this is your true love. must be breaking your heart. the why question will probably lead you into trouble as there are never enough replies to why i'm afraid. it's a viscious circle. ummm a thought only. has det ever thought about doing the landmark forum? i know you have one right there in your city. and well, i will tell you that even my closest friend just did the forum a few weekends ago and after 14 years of telling him about it. he said why the hell didn't you make me go. hummmm ummmm well, ummmmm. fuck head. i tried. could be a great place for your man and well you too as well to unload years of suffering. pm me if you want to know more. i know you miss him darling but he is in there. by the way the forum is 3 days and you will accomplish more in those 3 days then most people do in years of therapy. swear to god. time to change his thinking and also to free you up as well my lady.
love always with my heart and soul bootsie

[satori]

Why?

I am not worthy to give advice to the likes of Det and Yourself Dx

I can only pass on what I have found personally in my journey.

I too thought that being AF would be social leprosy / no "fun" etc. etc. - and this was partly why I resisted quitting completely for a good while.

But once I DID commit - it is HONESTLY the most liberating thing I have done in my entire adult life.

In fact - far from people being scornful or putting me down because I don't drink, many actually are envious that I have managed to quit - some openly and quite a few more, I suspect, secretly.

A couple of friends commented that when they heard I was quitting, they thought I would turn into some boring preaching killjoy. But they were relieved to discover that I was just the same as ever.

I think that is key to successfully doing this (for me anyway).
I chose not to drink - but chose NOT to change many of the other things I did.
I STILL go to the bar with my friends etc. as I always did - only I drink non alcoholic drinks.
I STILL go out for meals, go to see bands, go to barbecues (well one since I quit! - it IS the UK after all!).

I am still the same guy as I was before - the ONLY difference is that the glass I have in my hand doen not have any ethanol in it.

In fact - I am probably MORE fun than I was before - because I can go out MORE because I can drive everywhere at any time.

Take care

Satori

xxx

[Finding My Self]

Why?

Dx - I want to come back on this.... your post touched me....but I have to go to the dentist and will come back later.... but I just wanted you to know I am thinking of you...and sending a hug. Trite, I know, but I mean it.

Love to you both
FMSxx :l :l

[CaptJBean]

Why?

Id

The term id is a Latinised derivation from Groddeck's das Es[1]. It stands in direct opposition to the super-ego. It is dominated by the pleasure principle.
The ID is the subconcious part of the brain that is the center of controling all unknown pleasures or desires. These desires one may or may not be aware of, however, acoording to Freud, one will never be capable of understanding all desires. The sexual desire, firstly, may be prevelant in one's mind, although, if one were focused on understanding all of the sexual desires, one would be very disturbed to discover what actual sexual desires one may harbor in one's subconcious. Secondly, the ID is the part of the mind that controlls all religious and spiritual beliefs.
The newborn child is regarded as being completely 'Id-ridden', in the sense that it is a mass of instinctive drives and impulses, and demands immediate satisfaction. This view equates a new born child with an id-ridden individual - often humorously - with this analogy: an alimentary tract with no sense of responsibility at either end.
The id is responsible for our basic drives such as food, sex and aggressive impulses. It is amoral and egocentric, ruled by the pleasure-pain principle; it is without a sense of time; completely illogical; primarily sexual; infantile in its emotional development; will not take 'no' for an answer. It is regarded as the reservoir of the libido or "love energy".
A popular interpretation of the id is not that it is "convincing" the mind to ignore social norms, but rather in itself just does not take social norms into account when 'thinking' or 'acting'. The id is the primal, or beast-like, part of the brain, determined to pursue actions that are pleasurable, such as eating or copulation. The prime motive of the id is self-survival, pursuing whatever necessary to accomplish that goal.

[trixietrack]

Why?

he is so lucky to have you. hope he can come to terms with his wounds and grow from there.
sometimes you have to fall hard to wake up and see that you need to move on.

peace and light to both of you

Trix

[Determinatrix]

Why?

Thank you.

Boots - you're right. This question is pointless. No answer will help. I am just trying to wrap my brain around something so that it makes sense. Thank you for your tender support.

Satori - I believe you. I bet you are able to be in the moment and enjoy because you are not chasing for that feeling. I tell Det that those who mind don't matter; and those who matter don't mind.

Findme - Hug received with thanks.

More2 - Thank you. He will be back. I knew he had a drinking problem before we got married. I married him because his attitude was that he wanted to beat this, and every year in the last ten he has progressed so much. This is just a really bad week. He will be back. And thank you, because I know you and everyone will be here for him, like long lost friends picking up exactly where they left off last.

Well Capt - Psych 101 The Id vs the Ego. (My mom is a Clinical Psychologist.) I believe the HBO special that came out earlier this year discussed how the part of the brain that tells us not to eat the entire gallon of ice cream is damaged from alcohol abuse, therefore creating a good old Catch22. Thank you for the educational hug.

Trix - He has fallen hard many times. He has detoxed twice this year. He has had 93 and 120 days AF this year - such success!

Thank you for caring.

[lushy]

Why?

Dx,

I, too, am so sorry to hear this. I can really feel your pain. It seems so rational and logical that if alcohol is causing this much pain and strife in one's life then one should just not drink. Oh how I/we wish it was that easy. This life of addiction is so complex and irrational and for people that do not have addiction issues it is very hard to understand. Why risk the great things in life you ask? Good question. Why would we? We know not putting alcohol in our body is the right thing to do, plain and simple, but despite knowing this some of us continue to imbibe.

Determinator has truly been one of the most inspiring people to me here. After reading his childhood story yesterday I can see he has a lot of burdens to carry. Have you gone to therapy together about this? Maybe it would help? I also looked into the Landmark Forum that Barbie mentioned and it looks really interesting.

I love you and D, we all do. I pray he will get back on an AF streak because it sounds like it is really the best choice for him, and you, right now. Lots of love to both of you!!!

[Saint Jude]

Why?

Dx & Det, Keeping you both close in my thoughts & :h today. It will get better again.
I'm so glad you have each other...
I know I've put my Hubby thru Hell...

That song "Why do I" by Vince Gill, was just playing while I was reading this thread. It's really beautiful...maybe google & give it a listen.

:l Judie

[southernbelle47]

Why?

DX....my heart breaks for BOTH of you.....you are so special to us.

I feel like "my children" are hurting...and they are...

I read something the other day that may give some insight.
It is on inner healing...
there may be some connections in your area to try. I can't explain it here but this works for some.

I love you...hug each other if you can.
:h Nancy

[southernbelle47]

Why?

Wow...
That was alot to read and take in...Try this one first.

Charisma Magazine

:l

[Finding My Self]

Why?

"We have had talks about his thoughts on what AF means to him.
What is so bad about being someone who doesn't drink?
He considers it equal to leprosy; a social outcast.
He is more afraid of being "that guy" than sick and dead.
It breaks my heart that he is not ready to be free."

Dx - this is the bit that I wanted to come back to.....does Det drink for the feeling drunk? Or the absence of bad feelings? (different) Or just because it is nearly impossible in this day and age to say, "I don't drink" without being labelled a loser, a failure, weak-willed, sick, ill, diseased, alcoholic (with all the previous labels), party-pooper...etc etc etc....by an awful lot of people.

OR SO IT SEEMS...as you say, anyone thinking that needs not be in our lives!

This is only my humble thought....how it was for me and I don't wish to project my stuff in here....I really don't. But what else have I got than my own inner thoughts!

When I came to giving up I was terrified....I had the physical stuff to go through and having a vomiting phobia, well, I was dreading it (it was OK for me). But after that, it was truly facing this labelling that terrified me...I had drunk to 'deal with' all the negative labels stuck on me from childhood....and now my 'friend' was going to stick a final, publicly damning one on me to boot.... This had kept me drinking long after I knew I had to stop this madness. It mattered more to me than anything that I didn't have that - hence AA scaring the **** out of me! (For me, I could see that accepting the label liberated most people, for me it was the end.)

I got over the physical withdrawal and then, after 5 months, tried a tiny amount of wine with soda.... 70mls. That is small... and it was enough. I got my place - and I soooh hope I stay there, of course. I had got to a place where I could say yes or no to a small drink...I'd got to a place of, "She doesn't drink much..." rather than, "Well, it's odd...I wonder if...?" I needn't say anything about, "I don't/can't /mustn't drink" or, "I am an alcoholic" or anything 'labeling'. If anyone wants to think that I'm a party-pooper, well, show me the party and I'll show you the party girl!! I don't need booze if I'm with friends having good, honest fun...if they're the sort of people I will feel nervous around do I want to be there?(Of course there are times you have to be places but they're fewer than you imagine.)

I'm rambling but it was the lines you typed that leapt out at me..... if there is anything about that for Det...... well, here is the place for non-labelling! And if people label anyewhere else, in my experience, they have the problem.... I've seen labels destroy people, especially this one.

To desperately need to be an OK guy after all that muck he was dished out...to feel sort of 'normal'...but feel everyone will point the finger and stick this mighty heavy label on him?? Well, of course, I am possibly way off the mark and I apologise hugely for this. But I have to admit that in the early days I would rather have been 'sick and dead' than even more of a social outcast than I thought I was deep down already.... crazy I know, but it was very real.

If I can stay in this place of open choice and ok-ness inside about drink I am blessed for ever! And I so hope Det finds his place with it too. Even if totally AF forever...with the same peace of mind about his decision and, eventually, b**ger what anyone else thinks - it's their problem.

Love and hugs and I sooooh hope I haven't 'over-egged-this-cake' Bit of a risk... this is so important for a lovely, brave, kind man. I hope this hasn't seemed like 'talking aobut Det behind his back...' It's meant with a willing heart.

Lots of love to you both
FMS xx

[southernbelle47]

Why?

OK...here it is again...Charisma Magazine

[Prest4time]

Why?

Hi Dx....

I think so much of the problem is connected to un-healed wounds. I know that sounds like psycho-babble, but I finally started some counseling in April to deal with some deep issues that were crippling me emotionally that happened years ago. I would go months, sometimes years and think that I was "over it", but at certain anniversaries of the pain, or certain situations would trigger the pain to come bubbling to the surface and I would feel as if it had just happened two hours before. I have been doing some "cognitive therapy" which is basically capturing your thoughts and taking control of them rather than allowing them to take you all the way down the negative road, which ultimately leads to drinking.

I know even this time of the year I am approaching (late Nov, early Dec) one of my hardest times ever. Last year I basically had a meltdown after a year of being here. I too read Det's story, and I wonder if there is a lot of pain there that he could benefit from some good counseling. I know I have. Childhood wounds like those are truly crippling. We may learn to be successful and never repeat those things, but the holes in your heart can only be known by the one wounded.

I believe he will come out of this setback as well, and I just say that from my own exeperience. It may not be his last, but they do get fewer and far between. And there are many here such as Satori and Starlight (I'm sure much more) who have found lasting freedom and are so happy it is contagious!

I wish both of you the best, and hold you guys dear. Take care of your heart too. This too shall pass.

Love, Allie

[Determinatrix]

Why?

Lushy - Thank you for your warm reassurance that I am not insane!

Judie - That is a very touching song. Thank you for sharing.

Nancy - ok, 34 pages is a lot to read. But I found some interesting points.

FindMe - Thank you for your tact. The only point of view one usually has is their own. So project away!

Allie - Thank you for your optimism.

Thank you all of you for being Determinator's friends.