Managing inner voices

[nancy]

Hi all

As you know, I have been thinking about inner voices for a long time now. I was raised Christian but have an interest in Buddhism, which in my view is compatible with any religion.

so what am I thinking about now?

A person may have a lot of voices, including voices that urge you to drink or limit your self-esteem.
I am wondering, as a Christian, you are taught to personalize a lot of urges (therefore you confess and feel guilty). Buddhism seems to help you distance yourself from everything, one's self is not necessarily the voices one hears. Urges come and go and to not necessarily represent the self.

I have to think that the Buddhist philosophy would be helpful, in that just because you have a thought or urge, that thought or urge is not "you". so the cult of personality is greatly diminished.

I think this might be helpful for addictiion because according to some upbrignings, the thoughts you have ARE you, and actions are extentions. Buddhism seems to make way for a lot more expansive thought of the self.

Similarly, I am not a huge fan of criminalizing voices that urge you to drink.

any thoughts?

[janka]

Managing inner voices

Hi Nancy and this is so thought-provoking and interesting. Urges (also can be considered thoughts) cannot define a person, just like a label cannot define or fully describe a person, such as "alcoholic" which is so limiting, confusing and even harmful in that it may create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Distancing oneself from thoughts, urges and labels is a great idea and makes way for a much more grounded (less rattled) human existence. "Crimilazing" thoughts gives them way too much weight and hence disturbs one's sense of balance, engenders negativity and harm to the human soul I think.

I too was raised in a dutiful Christian family, and went to Catholic schools from kindergarten through high school, so I am so used to feeling guilt, it is so, so heavy. I probably suffer more than necessary because of the weight of my pangs/thoughts of conscience.

Anyway, do you have any favorite Buddhist readings that you would recommend? One of my good friends at work is a Buddhist and does not get rattled by any thought ... amazing and so centered. j

[MyOwnWoman]

Managing inner voices

Hi Nancy. I want to thank you for offering this. I'm going to think on it a bit with a cup of coffee and sit with it before I give a real reply.
(you are making my right brain really work here!)

[beatle]

Managing inner voices

I agree and love the Buddhist philosophy in general. Guilt does no good.

...but urges are often physical. In my case, anyway. Stress is a major trigger. So, I think, I need a drink. Why? Not to relieve my inner soul, but to relieve my shaking body. To calm my racing heart. To allow me to deal with the situation without having a major nervous breakdown.

Other times, I might just be sitting reading a good book and thinking, ahh a nice glass of wine, that would be lovely. Then that is just a habitual thing that can be replaced with a nice cup of tea, right?

[MyOwnWoman]

Managing inner voices

yes, Beatle, there is the physical portion of desiring drink, and it is so real. Dammit.

Your thoughts make me think of the whole concept of Ego. That part of us that begets so many damaging thoughts. And it is such a determined survivor. To ignore those thoughts is to ignore the ego, and man o man does it piss her/him off!! Ego is sneaky, ruthless, demanding, spoiled... it refuses to be ignored. So it throws all those thoughts out there, and wants/needs us to believe it is our Self that is having such thoughts. The ego wants always to be in control. Life would be so easy without it. But then, how much would we value life if we didn't have to fight for our true Self to reign?

You're making me want to find my Pema books.

[Guest]

Managing inner voices

nancy;250647 wrote: Hi all


Similarly, I am not a huge fan of criminalizing voices that urge you to drink.

any thoughts?

I am not a huge fan of crimializing voices either. That wouldn't make sense since my goal is moderation, it may make more sense if someone's goal was abstinence perhaps. Plus I am afraid that someone whose name really is AL might join MWO and he may think we all hate him!:H

[satori]

Managing inner voices

[quote=beatle;251071]
...but urges are often physical. In my case, anyway. Stress is a major trigger. So, I think, I need a drink. Why? Not to relieve my inner soul, but to relieve my shaking body. To calm my racing heart. To allow me to deal with the situation without having a major nervous breakdown.

quote]


Beatle,

The problen you seem to have is not that the urges are physical - but the thought processes that go along with these physical sensations.

NOW - I am not talking about serious initial withdrawal which CAN be physically dangerous if not medically supervised.
I am here talking about "normal" urges to drink caused by our day to day triggers / stressors.

If your heart is racing .... it is simply a racing heart - experience it, notice how it feels become aware of that sensation - WITHOUT the thought processes that normally go with this sensation for you.

Lose the "AAAARRRRGHHHH my heart is racing" or " I feel terrible" or "I am SO stressed - I could do with a drink" - and just experience the racing heart - just look at how it feels. See it arising, watch it while it is happening and watch as it resolves.

It is a natural bodily function, it does not cause you any pain, it will not harm you.
It doesn't NEED to be treated, with alcohol - or anything else - it WILL pass.

Same applies to a shaking body, anger, sadness - whatever.

The only thing that makes these sensations seem unbearable is the THOUGHT PROCESSES that you have come to habitually use to cope with them.

Us Buddhists believe that most humans "suffer" because they are "attached".
Attached, that is, to feeling good, and averse to feeling bad.

We are constantly feeding this attachment, this craving - by acquiring things, power, wealth - shopping, drinking, doing drugs, sex, - whatever..... in an effort to avoid feeling bad - at all cost.
As a result, our thought processes have grown accustomed to blowing bad feelings (such as stress) out of proportion - and wanting to "FIX" it as soon as possible - to get back to that precious "good" feeling.

The problem is - that the good feeling doesn't last - the nice pair of jeans (or whatever) you bought to make you feel better only did so for about a day(if that?) - and then you need another "boost" - in whatever form.

This whole cycle leads to more "suffering" - which leads to more "craving" ..........and so on.

The trick is to realise that "sh*t happens" - we HAVE to experience feeling less than exstatically happy at SOME point! We CAN'T avoid it! - NO-One can! It is part and parcel of our human existence to feel "bad" or "down".

We have to try to realise that and just experience it, deal with it practically by all means - but do not allow the thought processes to "Big UP" the problem, and - IT WILL PASS!
Just like the "good" feelings don't last, the "bad" ones don't last either.

So next time you feel stressed and want to drink, sit down, quietly set aside the racing "AAAARRRGGGHH" type thoughts and just "feel" the sensations - the tight feeling in your tummy - sure it is strange - but NOT unbearable. The racing heart - a perfectly normal bodily reaction to stress.
Shaking body - again - perfectly natural bodily reaction to stress - you have adrenaline coursing through your body - that shaky feeling is what it feels like.

Now - none of these sensations are pleasant - but they are all perfectly normal - non life threatening - and TEMPORARY.

And - the fact is - they are over MUCH more quickly when you just sit with them like this.
They only hang around when accompanied by thoughts like "I feel really Bad" "Oh - why is this happening to me - it is not fair, I really could do with a drink right now" etc etc etc.
These thoughts just feed the idea that you feel "bad" and make that state of mind / body last longer.

In fact - if you practice long enough - you will come to see these sensations as they begin to arise, and can observe the process almost as an observer. You don't even get to the full blown stress any more - it is nipped in the bud!

Apologies if you know all this inside out - but even if you do - it may help someone else - or just give you a gentle reminder!

Oh - and BTW - it is SO much easier to practice like this WITHOUT alcohol in our systems - while drinking - it is almost impossible!
My own levels of anxiety / stress are hugely reduced since I have been AF!

Love

Satori

xxx

[beatle]

Managing inner voices

Thank you Satori--
funny I just came back from a session with my therapist. She is rather ignorant and I was thinking of dumping her because I feel I have more to teach her than she does me. BUT, we did chance upon this very subject today...

...And she was saying the same things as you are saying here (which, of course you know, is very Buddhist)-- that it is OKAY to feel bad. It is OKAY to feel like you are going to lose it.

In fact, I'm thinking, maybe it is good for us to suffer sometimes (when we know it will get better, of course=-)... especially if making it better for a short time means we will only suffer later anyway.

So maybe the therapist isn't quite the moron I had come to believe she is. (Although, she never heard of hypnotherapy and doesn't believe supplements can help anyone. The AA way is all she knows.)

Anyway, thank you for the thoughts (much better expressed than the therapist, btw). And if I think about it, I have often suffered, keeping a goal in mind, throughout my life (everything from university exams to pregnancy and childbirth). How did I get through it all without alcohol? I did it with pure willpower and motivation. I hardly thought of it as suffering as long as I kept the goal in mind. I must apply these same thinking processes to my struggle now. (And I am in fact doing it, I'm just not as good at it as I would like to be.)

I may use a mantra: It is ok to feel bad... this too shall pass.

Sorry for such a long-winded response. But, it is all related to your post, Nancy, I feel.

How ARE you Nancy?

[janka]

Managing inner voices

Right on Satori, so very well said!

[janka]

Managing inner voices

Right on Satori, so very well said!!! j

[happydog]

Managing inner voices

just read this. Yes Thank You satori :
it has help someone. so well said.

Love
Teardrop.x

[Last Of The Summer Wine]

Managing inner voices

Okay, so now I'm confused!!

Hi Nancy, Satori et al (well not "AL" but you know what I mean!)

To cut a long story short, I'm in a bit of a "guddle" at the moment - I hope Satori knows what that means! I've decided that the alcohol feeds the depression which feeds the alcohol, etc., etc. So I looked on this forum and found a thread about natural remedies for depression, and made notes of the ones some people recommended. Thinking, hey this is good, this little lot will sort me out However, I now come to this thread and Satori has got me thinking that maybe (without the booze of course) I need to go through the bad feelings and "sit with them" as he says, rather than try to cover them up with supplements and minerals. If I can see the bad days coming, can I just say ooh here we go, but with no hangovers I can deal with this? I need to eat better as well, I am well overweight, I don't exercise, and now that I'm writing this, I think I am just about answering my own question - huh, typical - over-thinking again

Okay, I am going to try some of the natural stuff recommended on the depression thread, but also try and look a bit closer at myself and why I get like this (and it's happening too often now) Thanks for reading, if you did:H
J

[satori]

Managing inner voices

Last,

As I said earlier - there is no problem with "dealing with the situation practically" (appropriately)

What I meant there was - for example If you have a headache - by all means go and take a painkiller if you so wish.
Don't sit there feeling the pain just for the hell of it.

Same applies to feeling low - If you think that medication and / or suppliments might genuinely help - go do it if you wish to do so.

What I was trying to get over was that we "suffer" a great deal more if we allow the mental "anguish" to control us, and influence our decisions / actions inappropriately.

In no way did I mean we should deliberately make ourselves endure discomfort as some kind of character building exercise.

In the case under discussion above, Beatle knows that alcohol is an inapropriate way to deal with stress.
My point was - in THIS situation - it is better to sit with the feelings and gently put aside the anguished thoughts that feed and exaggerate the bad feelings - because it is giving free rein to these negative thoughts that will make it more likely Beatle will give in to the urge to drink.

By sitting with these feelings - Beatle will come to realise that they are NOT unbearable - and that it is NOT necessary to use alcohol to self-medicate.

By sitting with our feelings in any situation - and not allowing ourselves to become lost in hours of mental "woe is me" type trains of thought, we can then normally make more reational, appropriate decisions.

The aim (for me) is to live life as much as possible "in the present moment" and to try to make the "right" decisions for the present moment.

eg -make the decision right now "NO I will not have a drink" when a craving arises, rather than allow myself to go off down that mental anguish path, living in the imagined future:
"woe is me - I cant have a drink for the rest of my life - it is So unfair - everyone else can drink" mental scenarios - as these only make the decision to stay AF RIGHT NOW more difficult.

Does that make sense?


Love

satori

xxx

[satori]

Managing inner voices

Sorry - in rambling mood today.

Last,

an appropriate decision for the present moment for you if you start feeling depression creeping up is to, recognise it and come to the conclusion that, since alcohol is not appropriate, you will go have some exercise, and then come home and eat a good sensible healthy meal instead.

But - if you start down the "AAAARGH I feel so bad" mental path, you may find yourself a couple of hours later mentally snapping back into "the present" with a drink in your hand, wondering what the hell happened!

NO - this is not a reflection on you - I have done it myself many many times!


Love

Satori

xxx

[Last Of The Summer Wine]

Managing inner voices

Satori

You never ramble, you always give good sensible advice, thank you. I appreciate reading your posts and yes, they do make sense. I am already feeling more positive and am trying to think in different, and I hope more positive ways.

However, I must take you up on your point about a "good sensible healthy meal" - after all I am a Scottish lassie through and through and our idea of a good meal is deep fried Mars Bar and chips!!! :H No, only kidding, but I was reading an old Broons annual last night (from 1985, got it in the local charity shop for a few pence because no-one down here has ever heard of the The Broons!) and all they seemed to eat all the way through was either fish and chips from the local chippie or Ma's mince and tatties! Paw and Grandpa did have steak and "sossiges" but that was a mistake cause Ma had taken in the butcher's delivery for the woman next door - awh, happy days at Glebe Close, eh?!!! And they are all so rude about poor Daphne's weight problems - very un-PC!!!

Thanks again, it's always a pleasure to read your posts.
Take care
J