Announcement

**Paddy** · October 22, 2006, 05:57 AM

Sunday October 22nd

G'day Abbers,

Yup, the identity thing is a tricky one. I guess it's not everyone's cup of tea. For all you know you might run into your work mates, or leave alone boss over the internet, ha, ha.

But I do agree that the ideal case was to see everyone face to face. Yet, living in the world we're living in that is maybe not the best option.

Have a nice Sunday all of you

Paddy

**YoungAtHeart** · October 22, 2006, 08:28 AM

Sunday October 22nd

"Revealing Oneself"

Thanks for picking up the ball, Sir Macks. This Honorable needed to sleep in a little this morning.

Regarding the pictures, I understand completely, Paddy. I've been around these part for a while, and I pretty certain that no one else that I know comes to this site at this point, and that's why I posted my pic for the evening. Otherwise, I would never have taken the chance. It would be lovely if we could be unveiled all the time, but, as you say, not necessarily the best option in our world and not everyone's cup of tea!

My history is long and drawn out and reads like a Russian novel. I'm not sure I can do it in short-hand. My mom and dad had a pretty dysfunctional marriage. My mom was depressed, but it often came out as anger (she had had a REALLY rotten childhood). My early years planted the seeds of anxiety and depression in me that have survived to this day (although greatly reduced due to years of therapy). Luckily, I did well in school, and my teachers loved me. So did my dad and his mother, my nana. That helped a lot.

My teen years were a nightmare. I lost my half brother in a motorcycle crash (my mom's son from a previous marriage) at age 13, and it threw our family into turmoil. My middle sister was horribly depressed and took all the family attention, and I took to drinking and "light" drugs. My grades went to hell. My youngest sister just got lost in all of this. It's a wonder I graduated from high school! My nana died when I was 16. Somehow, in all of this, my dad made time to talk to me like a grownup. We would have little talks in the living room, and he would have a glass of wine. It made me feel like he still had faith in me, and that meant so much to me. He later told me that he knew that I needed to have a least one grownup in my life who felt I was good and had the potential to do good things. How true that was! I owe a lot to him.

After high school, I pulled myself together and went to secretarial school and cut out the drinking and drugs. I would only drink occasionally (the drinking age was 18). After 6 months of being a secretary, I decided to go to college. (I'll never lose my respect for secretaries, and I'll never regret having been one, either!) Once in college and having some goals, I rediscovered my old self again and my love of learning. I did really well. My drinking was only a weekend thing, if that. Oh for those days!!

I went on to graduate school, evenutally got married, etc. My drinking began again after I had my daughter and my husband went into business for himself. He was not a sharp business man, and he wanted to be the next Donald Trump--not a great combination! I watched him fritter away our savings, and then we went into debt (this was intolerable to me!). I wish I had had the guts to divorce him then, but instead, I turned to alcohol, as I had done as a teen. Then in 1993, my dad died, and shortly after that, my marriage fell apart for good. My drinking reached a new high (or low, as it were). My drinking might not have been so bad had I picked myself up and gotten on with it after a bit, but instead, I drank seriously for 10 1/2 years after the divorce before finding MWO. I have grown in that time and gotten to a better place in many ways--more independent, for one thing, but the drinking has held me back in so many other ways. It is only now that I am ready to tackle this and start to learn to cope with my feelings in different ways. I am grateful to MWO for giving me the chance to have a different life from the one that I've had in the last 10 years.

Another good thing is that as my mom has aged, we have gotten close. I look at this eccentric little old lady, and she bears little resemblance to the pretty, angry mother of my childhood. I am blessed with this. We have had many talks about it, and they have been very healing.

Okay, there you have it. I hope it's not too much on a Sunday morning! I have lots to do today. I hope I do better at getting things done than I did yesterday. I was sooooo lazy! Throwing a big fantasy dinner party is hard work!:H

Hugs to all,
Kathy:l

PS: It's kind of scary putting this all out there!!!

**mikeupnorth** · October 22, 2006, 08:29 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Macks, thanks for getting things started.

Actually Kathy and I were both hoping to have a day of rest today. I had meant to post something about that yesterday, that whoever wanted to should just jump in and start the day off. Good job!

I understand that some people want to protect their anonymity, and that the alcohol issue is a big one. I also understand that others are simply not comfortable giving out personal details over the internet period. Both are perfectly reasonable positions, and I respect them.

Here is the way I look at it for myself, though. Issue #1 -- identifying myself as an alcoholic: I have already done that in my fairly small community here by attending AA meetings. And if I ran into someone here from my town at MWO they would be here for the same reasons that I am. Issue #2 concerns me more. But I am not posting personal details -- name, address, date of birth, etc. No one, as far as I can tell, would be able to figure out anything that they could use to steal my identity or track me down and murder me. And the witness protection program has me pretty deeply hidden. :H So anyways, I am not too worried about it...

I'm gonna go get a cup of java and take a bio break [by myself -- those of you who were at the party will get the joke] and I'll be back.

Mike

**dilayne** · October 22, 2006, 09:05 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Good Morning!
Thanks for the invitation to get to know one another a little more deeply. I've found this last year of psychotherapy how much we really want to be known..at least I've really wanted to be known for who I really am, not for the false self that I've built up over the years. I have grappled with the balance of being an open book and airing my dirty laundry to the world and taking the alternate route and pulling inward and keeping everything to myself...I can't seem to do that. I think it is because I am an artist and that part of my purpose and role in life is to bring to the world the things that others don't see..and one way of doing that is wearing my suffering on the outside..I have to be willing to do that through my art and through my being. It has been one of my major struggles in life..it is not an easy thing to do if you are a young woman with low self esteem that needs to be loved and accepted and who relies on external signs of approval..which in this culture means living up to the 'normal standards of beauty' (really fun when you begin to age)...well, what has gone on inside of me has not lined up with the norm..so long story short, I've spend most of my life denying the inside and trying to conform to what the world has proven to be worthy and it has cost me so much. My drinking, I believe, has been an attempt to ease the pain of that utter betrayal of who I really am, the beauty and the opposite..the wholeness inside. I'm at a stage in my life that I can no longer bear the pain of that betrayal.

I am one of seven children, 6 girls and a boy. I'm a twin (fraternal) and am the very middle child of all. I am the perfect peacemaker and diplomat. My parents divorced when I was five. My mother moved us 5 girls from my mother's first marriage to another state...which was the final wound to a very sensitive girl who loved her father dearly..I felt the pain of every one in the family and it has been my role to carry it..and I did it well. I married when I was 16..to jump the sinking ship that was called my family when my mother's second marriage (bearing 2 more children) came to a fall..I went on to create my own family to continue to work out whatever destiny had for me to work out..I carried on the tradition, divorcing my first husband twice..bearing 3 children with him and marrying my current husband 16 years ago. I got sober at 28 and am very grateful that I was conscious enough to stay that way while I raised these kids..who meant so much to me...but I had never had a chance to grow up myself..so when the kids grew up, I had to go back and pick up where I left off..so I did, and here I am..really at a 20 year cycle since now I'm 48..hmmm, I just realized that.

Both parents were alcoholics and narcissist (sp) but father was very succesful and brilliant, mom was depressed and weak. Dad married 4 times..died at 56 scuba diving in the Camen Islands..he had quit drinking and smoking..but lost his money.

My wonderful therapist (a theological psychotherapist with a jungian twist) says that we always go through learning cycles..learning the same lessons over and over again in a spiral way, on different levels...I'm definitely at a much deeper soulful level now than I was 28 years ago..and I'm very grateful that my bottoms have never had to be too low..at least that they haven't caused the people around me too much pain..that it's been mostly between me and God and that my loved ones have not suffered too much.

I have 3 grown children, a daughter 30 (who has taught me to love because she has been difficult to love..and gave me 4 wonderful grand children in a row and is married to a man who has had a cocaine problem...I actually started drinking after they had to live in my house for a year...it was more than I could stand..it showed me my own vulnerability) a son, 28..a brilliant electrical engineer with a masters degree from GA Tech, and a 20 year old daughter in her junior year at UGA who is loving, generous and kind..

Sorry this is so long...you asked!

Kathy, I really want to read your post..but I have to say I have a really hard time reading the light blue font..perhaps it's my 48 year old eyes, I'm going to go back and try again..

Thanks so much for sharing yourselves here...
d

**mikeupnorth** · October 22, 2006, 10:05 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Kathy, I love what you said about your father talking to you like an adult. That is really important to kids at a certain age. My grandmother did that with me, and I loved her for that (and for so many other reasons too).

Di, it sounds like you have a great therapist (a theological psychotherapist with a jungian twist)! That's just what I've been looking for. I know that I've been learning the same lessons over and over, although my cycles have been much shorter than 20 years....

I'm not sure I have the energy to go into so much detail this morning. I think I'll be a bit more general. And pardon my shorthand! You'll get the drift, I hope.

I grew up in the Southeastern U.S., with one younger sister. Heavy-drinking family. Some drama (where do you think Tennessee Williams got his inspiration?) but nothing too traumatic. Came to Alaska for college. Came out to my friends and family when I was 19. Was in one long-term relationship for 8 years; it was good but it involved quite a bit of wine and cocktails, and has been over now for 8 years. Have lived in the desert southwest and love that part of the country (the desert is beautiful) but Alaska feels more like home to me. I love and miss my family; I see them once a year, usually at Christmas. My dad died in 1997 so it's just my Mom, my sister and her kids now (and assorted aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.). I love visiting but when I'm there for too long it starts to feel very unhealthy for me. I work in higher education administration. I enjoy it for the most part. It is stable employment with decent pay and great benefits; I have room to grow in my profession, and work with a wonderful group of people. My only complaint is that our budget is always tight and we are always short-staffed. I sometimes consider going for a higher degree (I'll need it if I want to progress very far in my career) but frankly I can't imagine doing it any time in the foreseeable future.

My family wasn't very religious. I chose to go to church in my teens because I was on a spiritual quest, and because I wanted God to "cure" my homosexuality. Later when I realized that I was quite OK the way I was, I didn't think there was any way to be both gay and Christian, so I didn't have any religious affiliation for many years. I considered myself to be "spiritual but not religious." I spent a decade in that condition. Around my 30th birthday I started to feel a yearning to know God in a closer way, and to be part of an organized spiritual community. I started looking for a church -- but it was very important for me to find a place that would accept me for who I am. I tried MCC (a church founded by and for gay Christians who had basically been "thrown out" of other denominations), UU (Unitarian Universalist), and finally settled with the Epsicopal Church (the Anglican Church in the U.S.). I was initially attracted to it because of its liberal views on social issues and commitment to social justice, but also fell in love with its traditional liturgy. Going to weekly services has become a source of spiritual renewal for me, and a reminder that I am connected to something larger than myself. It is also a source of peace, strength and hope.

I feel that I have grown a lot over the years, but have spent way too much energy on this alcohol issue. I am ready to put it behind me. Let me rephrase that: I am ready to put the active drinking part of it behind me, and get into a maintenance mode of recovery. I think there is so much growth still ahead of me, so much left for me to do, and I'm excited to move on to more interesting things. My God, I have spent 6 years trying to fix this drinking problem. Add to that 5 years of active alcoholism before that, when I wasn't trying to fix it, and that's quite a bit of time wasted, when I could have been pursuing other things. I'm ready to get on with the business of living, and learning, and loving. I know that recovery will always require a certain amount of attention and work, but hopefully I can focus more attention on things I enjoy.

**Mackeral** · October 22, 2006, 10:12 AM

Sunday October 22nd

I was brought up in a rough area of Manchester..Old Trafford to be exact...My mum used to work in Moss side shopping centre if that gives you any clue to the kind of surroundings i grew up...The funny thing is when your born somewhere like that it becomes normal...and you think that is how everybody lives....I think our house was burgled 7 times in 4 years......3 people were shot dead on our street since i'v moved.
I had a good time in high school...Too good infact...i never took work seriously...to busy laughing...I did have a chance to turn into a professional football player..but broke 3 bones in my foot the week of the trials...I still wonder..What if?

When i left school i went to college...I wanted to be a fireman...I thought it would be my ideal job, untill one evening i was having a conversation with my dad, and he mentioned that sometimes fireman cant save people...and some of the sights i might see would proberly scar me for life...I know now he was right....so that knocked my plan right out of the window...Also in my first year of college my sister was born...i was 16 then and already had 2 brothers and we knew we were going to have sister...My mum was exstatic...she had always wanted a girl....I can remember being at the hospital..me and my 2 younger brothers really excited to see our baby girl...but my dad took us into another room and explained to us our sister has been born Down's syndrome....We didnt know what that meant...My dad took out a book and showed us pictures...We were in shock....None of us knew then what we know now...Downs people live lives as close to mine and yours than you can imagine...But back then to us at least it sounded like the end of the world.....And i think it sent me off the rails a bit..Drinking..dabbled in drugs...pulled some stupid stunts that looking back now could have killed me...i climbed up the outside of a multistory car park ...i was sober...i should probrly be dead now.....Anyway i think thats when my drinking began.
Also becoming a dad at 18 leaves a lot of questions in your life...At 18 the world still revolved around me..While i was setting up home and a family my friends were out having the time of their lives...well thats how i saw it....A small group of my friends...me included had planned to move to cyprus....becoming a dad meant i missed out.....Now i am so glad that i did but at the time i always got the feeling i was missing out...and had to make up for this by drinking at home...That stuck with me for years and years..

At 30 now i know i am still quite young...and i'm glad i have done something about my drinking now rather than in 10 or 20 years.

Like many people here i am an absolute worrier, i think this stems from the birth of my sister...I remember my wife saying lets have another child....and me thinking i think we've rode our luck enough...I still think like that...It is brilliant having 5 children....and i wouldnt put them back for the world...but sometimes ..in my way of thinking this means its 5 times more likely something bad could happen to them...be it illness or an accident....I know that is a very morbid way to look at life...but i lie awake at nights worrying about that sort of stuff...proberly another reason why i drank so much...Numbness..
Anyway i'm babbling on far to much....i need a cup of tea and a sandwich.

Kathy and Dilayne i really enjoyed reading your posts today...and i feel like i know you both a little better...This has been pretty theraputic for me actually...i hope more follow suit......Be back later love Macks:l

**dilayne** · October 22, 2006, 10:15 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Mike, great to hear more about you. I just went to my cousin's commitment ceremony in Little Rock, Ar. He and his partner have been together for 16 years..it was the first blessing that the Episcopal Church (God love the Episcopalians!) gave to gay couple in the state. It was a lovely ceremony and so well done..it was irresistable..anyone who attended would see that the union was one of love.

Regarding cycles..I agree...my cycles tend to be more in the 7 year cycles..but the Alcohol..well, I quit when I was about 28 and only resumed drinking again 3 or 4 years ago..and stringently tried to moderate it..bingeing usually when I finally let myself drink..never quite letting it totally get too out of control. It was this last two weeks that I just surrended and let it go..drinking a bottle of wine a day..I guess I wanted to see where it would take it. It was the final reminder of how much a toxin it is to my body...having had longer years of a clean body than not..the contrast in undeniable..I began feeling depressed, I was able to see objectively what I was doing to myself..and my higher self said, "see"...and I said, "I do".

**dilayne** · October 22, 2006, 10:18 AM

Sunday October 22nd

and you too Mack..5 children! Bless you!

**YoungAtHeart** · October 22, 2006, 10:42 AM

Sunday October 22nd

In the interest of everyone being able to read, who would like me to change my light-blue font???

**Mackeral** · October 22, 2006, 10:47 AM

Sunday October 22nd

I can read it fine...either colour i mean.

**dilayne** · October 22, 2006, 11:14 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Kathy..LOL, don't change it on my account..the darker blue was mucho better tho!

**YoungAtHeart** · October 22, 2006, 11:21 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Turquoise/Aqua is my favorite color, Di, so I have settled on that. But I can change my post for a while so that you can read it in peace! In fact, I'll do that now! Just like coming out with our pictures, it doesn't have to be permanent! How's that???

Hugs,
XOXOX
Kathy

**dilayne** · October 22, 2006, 11:38 AM

Sunday October 22nd

much better..the color isn't a problem, it's just the lighter ones are hard for me to see..not enough contrast. lovely colors though...be right back..going to read it now..

**Farmeress** · October 22, 2006, 11:41 AM

Sunday October 22nd

Hello each one of you

Ive only got a few miniutes Im not in the place you are

I really wanted to say thank you for youir self speaking. All of you have been Ok with me when Ive popped in at times

Theres nothing I am gonna say significant to follow your thread now

I better go I can only speak for myself whether its the Abersville concept or other links I didnt see any
boundries/divisions on who speaks and listens to who around here

We all came in through the same door

Take Care Hugs

S

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