Tuesday 7th november

[irishlady]

Wow this is scary, I logged on to read todays posts in the monthly abs and theres no one here,so if you all don't think me to presumptious I would like to give you my thought for today and it's all about tolerence.
Before I stopped drinking ( and believe me I am so ashamed to admit to this now ) if I saw a really obese person I would actually think to myself, why can't you just stop eating so much. Sometimes they will have a documentary on television about people who are thousands of pounds in debt because they can't stop spending on their credit cards, and again i would think, well just cut the cards up, whats wrong with you, you have no self control. That was just the same as when my husband used to say to me " your drinking far too much, can't you just stop buying so much wine."
The point I'm trying to make here is that some people are locked into their own private hell of addiction, and we have all been there haven't we ? how many times in the past have we put on our public face yet inside we have been slowly dying with the pain of our addiction ?
So just one of the many lessons I have learnt in the last few weeks is tolerance towards my fellow man.

Love to you all, hope you are all up and running today,

Louise xxxx:l

[dilayne]

Tuesday 7th november

Good Morning Louise, and thanks for getting us started. I too feel such a sharp pain of attack when I see someone who appears weak or out of control..I know I'm judging..seemingly against my will. I know that I am projecting my own self judgment onto them because it is so painful..it's so much easier to 'judge' someone or something outside of myself than to realize I'm doing it to myself..

I read the book The Purpose Driven Life a few years ago and have continued to receive daily devotions from the author...I tend to skip over them now and delete them from my email box, but this morning's devotion grabbed me..and when I came here, your topic was so similar...very much the synchronicity we discussed yesterday. I'm going to go ahead and post it here because it was so thought provoking and addresses your topic, I think so well..I hope no one mind's- it is a bit long.

Listening for the silent scream
by John Fischer

In a counseling session, I inadvertently lean on a pillow that emits a faint
electronic warble. I only hear it subconsciously, as I am deeply engaged in the
conversation. Then it happens again and I look down and discover my pillow is
screaming at me. An electronic chip inside is responding to the pressure of my
elbow. On the face of the pillow is a rendering of Edvard Munch?s famous 19th
century expressionism painting, The Scream. that wavy image of a wide-open mouth
and gaunt, skeletal face cradled in the hands of its own desperation. It has become
a universal depiction of the cry of the human heart.

In the painting, the screaming victim is standing on a bridge with a red, swirling
sky behind him and two figures in the background. In the artist's own words, the
inspiration for this painting came when an unexplainable sense of dread overcame him
while out walking with two of his friends. My friends walked on I stood there,
trembling with fear. And I sensed a great, infinite scream pass through nature."

Until I read this description, I saw the figures as approaching and for some reason
coming after the screaming victim (too many chase scenes, I guess), but according to
the artist, the two figures have passed on ahead, seemingly oblivious to whatever it
was that gripped him with fear. This underlines even more the loneliness expressed.
His companions have their backs turned on his desperation. They are no help to him.
Only he can hear the scream; and their apparent disinterest makes you feel the
scream is silent.

This is not a painting of a human being on a bridge surrounded by landscape; it is
an abstract capturing of the human soul. It is a painting of the state of mind that
many people are in today. We live in a time of momentous fear. Terrorism and
economic hardship grip many people, but their screams are mostly silent. Those who
could help are walking away. Where are you in this picture?
----
To view this painting, go to:
http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth...ch.scream2.jpg

[southernbelle47]

Tuesday 7th november

Good morning!

Thanks Louise for that thought. It goes right along with something I just read and would like to share.

"The value of hard places".
"Being forced into hard places gives us a whole new perpective on life. Things we once valued no longer hold the same value. Small things become big things, and what we once thought big no longer holds such importance.
The hard places allow us to identify with the sufferings of others. It keep us from having a shallow view of the hardships of others amd allows us to truly identify with them. Those who speak of such trials from no experience often judge others who have had such hardship. It is a superficiality of Christian experence that often permeates shallow believers.
Those who have walked in hard places immediately have a kinship with others who have walked there also. They do not need to explain; they merely look at one another with mutual respect and admiration for their common experience. They know that death has worked a special thing in them. This death leads to life in others because of the hard places God has taked them through.
It is impossible to appreciate any valley experience while you are in it. However, once you have reached the top of the mountain, you are able to appreciate the terrain you have passed through. You marvel at what you were able to walk through. The valley of the shadow of death has yielded more than you ever thought possible. You are able to appreciate the beauty of the experience and lay aside the sorrow and pain it may have produced.
Death works in you for a greater purpose. If you are there today, be assured that God is producing something of much greater value than you will ever know".
2 Corinthians 4:12
So then ,death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

When I wonder ...."why am I going through this"....it begins to make sense when I am able to back up and see the BIG picture.
Hope you all have a good Tuesday!
Nancy:l

[southernbelle47]

Tuesday 7th november

Hi Di.......we were posting at the same time!
Good subject. Thanks for sharing.
Nancy

[dilayne]

Tuesday 7th november

Thanks Nancy! Kahlil Gibran writes about pruning when he speaks of love..I always think of that when I'm going through one of those hard spots...I imagine myself a rose, in need of pruning..it makes the pain somehow more tolerable.
d

[Hawk]

Tuesday 7th november

Thank you everyone for such a good topic. Tolerance is always something I need to work on because even when I think I am doing OK, I know that I can do better for myself and my fellow man. I too look at people and judge - I don't mean too, but I do. Sometimes I am harsh and sometimes not so much. But I want to get to a place where I just look and say "Hello and have a good day." I think that would go a long way to making this a better place. I hope that's achievable someday.

Anyway, have a great day everyone. And remember to vote! If you don't participate you can't complain about the outcome - whatever it is.

[mikeupnorth]

Tuesday 7th november

Good topic, Louise. And thanks for getting the day started!

Yes -- everyone has his own weakness, his own addictions, and in the end, his own personal hell to endure. I've come to see that too. I see that in the morbidly obese, the drunk passed out on the sidewalk, the drug addict, the gambler, the cigarette smoker. I also see it in those who have to have the finest of everything: the perfect house with granite countertops and professional landscaping, the new SUV's (one for the husband, one for the wife), kids in private school and everyone having a separate cell phone. (All of this on borrowed money.) I see it in people who are angry at the world; in people who have extreme or hateful political agendas; I see it in people who are "workaholics." It all comes down to one basic theme: being unable to love oneself. When we're unable to love ourselves it comes out in various ways. We try to feel better by taking a drug. We abuse ourselves in the process, which makes us feel worse about ourselves, so we need more of the drug to feel OK. Or we need to buy nice things to feel good about ourselves. If we have all this "stuff" we must be OK. Or we have to put other people down and deny them rights to show that we are somehow better -- then we are OK. Or if we work work work, we don't have time to even think about the fact that we don't like who we are. We lose ourselves in our careers. At least that's one area in life we can be good at.

In the end it is a living hell for everyone caught in those traps. When I see it, my heart breaks for them because I've been there (I'm still there, in a way, and pulling myself out of the muck). It also breaks my heart because there IS still that tinge of judgment. That moment of "Why not just stop eating so much?" when I know it isn't that easy.

Di -- that painting haunts me, because I've heard the scream many times myself. I'm not sure if that makes me blessed or cursed. Sometimes I wish I could be one of the happy ignorant people walking by....

And Nancy I agree that God uses our hard times to teach us to be more loving toward our fellow man. After all, God became man to suffer as one of us. What does that tell us about the nature of love?

Good morning to you, Hawk -- and to all of you that haven't yet signed on.

I'm still enjoying Hawaii, even though it's a conference. Tonight is the luau and I'm thinking about what I'm going to drink besides alcohol! Something fruity that I can't get on the mainland, I suppose. And of course there will be plenty of food and entertainment to keep me occupied. I also plan to observe how silly (stupid) alcohol can make otherwise very intelligent people..... and be glad it's not me.

Take care, everyone. Mahalo~

Mike

[Lizzie Mouse]

Tuesday 7th november

Hi to everyone.

Not been on here since Saturday, rushing around...

Well, we went to a bonfire night party at one of Lee's Rugger mates.... ( This is the hard bit ) I was drinking wine - but it was only 7% and say 2 fingers, then topped up with Lemonade... everyone around me was drinking cans and bottles of beer and then Jim Beam ( is theat spelt right> ) and sambouka ( I know that's not spelt right !! ) And there was a firework display, and I was mainly sat in front of the biggest tv screen in the northern hemisphere with small children crawling over me.. Loved it !
One small child fell asleep ( well flung himself on me when the BIG BANGS went off) then fell asleep snuggling more in the louder the fireworks got.. His name was Callum, and me and Lee were going to smuggle him home in my handbag!!

Reading all of your posts has made me smile
Paddy made me laugh when he was talking bout Macks' car - tin Lizzy - and he then said it's Murphy's Law... Well Paddy - my name is Lizzy and my maiden name was Murphy = so I went a bit Paranoid then. !!!! :H

So Lou - you missed all the action !!! Us scheming to child snatch - Lee drunk on Sambuoka - me in charge ( snnorrtt ) men doing moonies ( hunky men !!! ) Oh how we larffed !!! Wasn't laughing trying to get a taxi home though !!!

It's lovely to read all of your posts, and I think it's just brill here in Abs... ( Does 5 teeny low alcohol wines count? ) hmm - it's not big and it's not clever..

Speak again soon

Love to you all
Liz
xxxxx

[Lizzie Mouse]

Tuesday 7th november

Just re-read my message - and when I say 2 fingers... I just mean heightwise - i.e half an inch.. Not 2 fingers - !!!:H

Oh I'll shut up now... digging deeper

[YoungAtHeart]

Tuesday 7th november

It's not too presumptuous of you at all to start the day's posts, Louise, and you also did a great job with a topic, as well! I must confess that I am not very tolerant of intolerance, myself. I've had people be judgmental of me, and I don't like to see it in others. When we have admitted our addiction and faced it, it does hopefully soften us toward others who struggle, no matter what their struggle is.

Nancy and Di, I translate some of what you write from the "Christian" perspective into the "humanistic" perspective. Of course, they are not exclusive at all, but for those who aren't into religion, understanding and dealing with your own feelings and suffering certainly helps one to develop empathy for others. If only we all understood and took responsibility for own own feelings, think what damage and destruction we could avoid in the world!! I could think of a lot of examples, but that could potentially lead to a RANT!:H So I'll just stick to myself, here!

I like the idea of "valley places" Nancy. I have been through those myself and have driven down the highway in tears, crying, "Okay, God, what's the point, cause I'm not GETTING IT!!!" It has sometimes taken time to understand my suffering, but it has all had a point, and it has had great meaning to me to come the place that I am at now.

I voted, Hawk!! I'll be glued to the TV tonight to wait for the outcomes!

Mike, maybe I'm missing something, but you seem to be one of the least judgmental people I know. I think many of us may think something judgmental at first. I know that I am not always the sould of empathy myself until I think something through, but you strike me as pretty balanced in your evaluation of things. Your post reminded me of the saying that "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Who wrote that? Thoreau?? I think there's a lot of truth to it, whether it is through addiction to alcohol, drugs, sex, or having a bigger house or SUV. Very little emphasis is placed on valuing relationships in our culture, much to our detriment, I think.

At any rate, it's been a tiring day, and it's only 2pm!! I took Maddy to get her blood drawn this morning, and she was quite brave, except when it was all over, she fainted! Fortunately, she was still in the chair, and the technician got a couple of the other workers to help revive her, and they made her lay down on a cot for about 15 minutes. When she was okay, she came home and slept for a couple of hours. I'm glad she fainted while we were still there! She's bigger than me and too much to handle all by myself! It made me want to have a glass of wine, but I consoled myself with a couple of leftover Halloween candies, and I'm okay now. Whew--cause I'm getting tired of starting over.

Anyway, that's all for now.

Enjoy your luau, tonight Mike! Fill us in on how silly everyone looks!

Hugs,
Kathy:l

[Lou]

Tuesday 7th november

Hey!!!

Hi guys and guyesses!!!
Just letting you know that im still alive and kicking!!! Am so busy at the moment...have booked a last minute holiday to Egypt..i fly out on sun, i so can not wait!!! a whole week of lying in the sun and completely chilling out..think its just what i need at the moment!!!
Hope you are all well and happy...i have to catch up on reading the posts for last couple of days!

Loves as always

Lou-Lou x x x

[Kris8086]

Tuesday 7th november

I will add my comments to Lou's lighter note. It is now one week for me and I am happy to have reached that milestone. My thanks to all of you.

I have started a reply on today's topic several times and not posted it. The whole area of judging others is a good one to consider and all of your comments have been very eloquent. Not sure that I can say anything better, perhaps just that all of us are on a difficult journey and we need to repect fellow travelers - where ever their travel takes them. Easier said than done, but I will be working on it. Now I go to vote!

[MonaCat]

Tuesday 7th november

Lady Di, a picture is worth a thousand words. Wow, I have been looking at that picture you linked us all day on and off. My first thought was that song by Phil Collins, "Another Day in Paradise", how the business man couldn't acknowledge the bag lady. It's too painful for some people to see others in need, they might have to do something for them! I sometimes feel like that person in the picture, feeling the pain, and no one notices.

Yikes Kathy, I am glad Maddy didn't get herself hurt fainting. Poor thing, now she won't want to ever have her blood drawn again! I guess, she won't go into medicine as a career.

I agree with the judgemental issue, it's so bad for us to do it. I struggle with that issue myself, and am glad you all brought it up. It's so wrong, and we should know better.

Thanks to all of your for being here, and your comments. My AF days are becoming easier, since you let me move in.

Hugs, Mona

[Newyear]

Tuesday 7th november

Hi Everyone!

This is a great topic and I want to read everything but I can' focus right now because I am glued to the tv watching the returns.
I skimmed some of the posts but will delve in a little more later when I can concentrate.

My good news (for me) for today is that even though my power went out very early this morning I managed to wake up in time to get to the gym by 5:35am. Worked out with my trainer and felt the burn!
I think one of the benefits I'm getting from exercising is just the fact that I'm doing it...kind of makes me happy with me. I had decided to just keep working out no matter what - even if I hated it or even if it did nothing for me. Going in with low expectations! anyway...thought I'd share.

Hope to get back later. Flipping channels now.
Hope everyone is doing well today-
Lisa