Prposing chemical solutions in GD

[bleep]

Greetings everyone, it's that guy from Meds again!

I have just responded to a thread in GD and I proposed a chemical solution. While I agree there are many ways out of the pit, obviously I'm very biased! That said, however, I don't want to step on toes and piss people off.

What is the "etiquette", for want of a better word, regarding this? Does it piss you off, and if so, why?

Merry Christmas, and a very happy New Year to everyone, I hope 2012 brings everyone closer to whatever they are aiming for!

EDIT: Great, a spelling mistake in the title. Don't you hate that?

[Unwasted]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

Bleep,

I actually think it's a great idea just in case someone posting isn't familiar with the site. I often post a link to the Meds thread if what I'm reading makes me think it's something that person should explore.......not that I try to decide if meds are right for that person, but if it sounds like they've already tried a lot of things.

I think people on the general threads typically don't bring up meds because we feel unqualified to do so. But since you're doing bac and have been successful I think it's really good of you to seek people out and put it forth as an option.

[tiptronic_ct]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

I don't think it pisses anyone off, Bleepster And if it does, don't allow it to get under your skin.

Everyone in the Army, the vast majority of the Underoos and a good percentage of the lurkers know very well that I'm on bac. Many of them have and are taking bac themselves, without necessarily participating on the meds threads. The point being: there is a general acceptance that chemical solutions are part of the picture for many, including other drugs like Antabuse, Campral etc.

I think that for the most part, people aren't generally prescriptive when they offer support, and no single method / tool is "preferred" - it is left to individuals to decide their own course of action. I'm not even sure if a majority of people actively participating on this site still read RJs book and use the CDs. It would be very interesting to know, actually.

I have long encouraged greater participation from the meds users in the General section, but have kinda given up on the idea. If you'd like to chime on any threads, I think it would be most welcome.

[Doggygirl]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

Bleep, I'll be honest I've never understood the "separation" that people seem to feel who post only in the meds section (or only in the subscriber section, or only the _______ section). IMO, we are blessed with a forum that is open and accepting of discussion of ANY way out that people care to talk about. I know I find it very helpful to read what is working for people - and that is a wide variety of tools including meds, etc. I am always more open to reading things that are framed as "here is what worked for me" rather than "here is what you should do." I guess I'm stubborn that way LOL!

Tip - FWIW I still use most of the supplements in RJs book and also try to follow the diet and exercise suggestions - most of that has just become part of my sober lifestyle. I don't use the CD's any more, but probably should dig up the Sleep Learning one just because it relaxes me LOL! I think there are quite a few people here who continue to use at least parts of her recommended strategy even a few years down the road. Don't want to speak for others though!

DG

[nancy]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

segregated parts of the site

Doggy Girl is as wise as ever. I also don't understand segregation of the parts of the site. Nowadays it's meds carving their own niche. Previously we had a big e-argument about moderators posting on general. I guess people struggling to abstain view that as a temptation.

I think it's good to post on general because there will be new people on here looking for information and they might not go to meds right away. The book recommends topamax whereas it seems that drug never took off with members. I have only really seen members get excited about baclofen.

I sometimes suggest medication to people who are new. For example, someone wrote in about her father having been off and on the wagon and suffering from extreme health problems. Chances are, he has never heard of new medical options like baclofen. I remember being moved by a story by a woman who wrote that she was given the usual "let go" advice about her alcoholic husband, and she ignored that advice and got him on baclofen and it worked.

And the Sinclair Method is not known generally. So I sometimes advise checking medications out if the situation seems severe, even though I have never tried them.

As Doggy Girl said, non-dogmatic suggestions about what worked in your case seem totally appropriate.

[Supercrew]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

The only reason I don't frequest the med section, aside from the AA thread in there is because I never tried using them and I was fortunate to find success without them. Although my solution might not work for everyone, I came to a conclusion when I found it. You eventually have to change the way you think and feel about alcohol to be successful. If you can accomplish that through using meds then great, but if meds just change you physically and don't help combat the mental obsession for the long run then I might think they are only a short term solution. I try not to comment on alot of things that I think might upset other members who might be trying other things that I might not necessarily agree with.

I am in a good place, I have pretty thick skin, and I like to debate, but not at the risk of causing another member to drink or question their own success.

[nancy]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

meds vs. no meds

I see your point supercrew. I do generally think it's good to get at the root of mental problems and in general prefer natural over meds. But I find it really interesting what Amiesen said in a Q&A about his method. It seems he suffered extreme anxiety. So the medication treats that. Granted you can still argue about whether there might be another way of curing severe anxiety. But having had anxiety in moderate forms I can really see where a medication that treats a severe case could alleviate the acting out behavior of drinking. I think underlying mental conditions like severe anxiety and PTSD are only just beginning to be recognized.

[Supercrew]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

nancy;1235597 wrote: I see your point supercrew. I do generally think it's good to get at the root of mental problems and in general prefer natural over meds. But I find it really interesting what Amiesen said in a Q&A about his method. It seems he suffered extreme anxiety. So the medication treats that. Granted you can still argue about whether there might be another way of curing severe anxiety. But having had anxiety in moderate forms I can really see where a medication that treats a severe case could alleviate the acting out behavior of drinking. I think underlying mental conditions like severe anxiety and PTSD are only just beginning to be recognized.

And that's why I try not to comment Nancy. I don't know enough or have any experience using meds to fix mental ills. I come from a long line of "it's all in your head", and "what the mind can conceive and believe the body can acheive" coaching, teaching and mentoring. So for me to comment on those subjects normally makes me sound like the unfeeling guy who is against all medication....and that might not be that far from the truth. So I try to steer away from commenting. To even question the use of antidepressants is just asking to get a tongue lashing from 75% of United States if not more.

[nancy]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

tongue-lashing

Yeah, it's hard to strike a balance between being open minded and provocative, questioning things like pharma companies, and trampling on something that has helped someone else. I wrote about my doubts about anti-depressants before because I have a decent amount of experience with them and know that they are over-used and I feel we have been oversold. I have also had experience with a degree of anxiety that at times felt overwhelming and PTSD, which alcohol does seem to fix short term. So I wonder what it's like to have severe anxiety/social phobia. I have also never had bipolar disorder, which I guess people often use alcohol to self-medicate.

[Supercrew]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

I have had anxiety/social phobia when I was younger. Whether it could be considered severe I'm not sure. I was able to work through these things using baby steps. The problem was I was in outside and inside sales during the time. I had to change professions and get into operations. Once there I realized to make more money I needed to be in sales.....so now I have been in sales for over 15 years I have overcame alot of the phobia, but I am still not nearly as successful as I could be. Now I don't use the anxiety as an excuse, I use procrastnation as the excuse....but in hindsite it is something that I will now focus on because of this thread. 2012 is the year I will beat all my social phobias and finally make my million dollars!! Thanks!! (And no, I'm not kidding)

[bleep]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

Thanks for all the thought-out responses! I agree, there shouldn't be such a big separation. One of the biggest causes of it, I think (and I'm using my experiences as an example here), was that when I was actively titrating up on baclofen, there was simply no room for anything else. In a similar fashion, once I was done titrating, alcohol no longer formed the central part of my life, which meant that GD held no attraction. Most people, at this point, I think just fade away from the forum.

I know that a lot of people in Meds are frustrated at what they see as a cycle repeating itself, when people reappear here with the same issue. This might help explain a little of the divide, but in fact it should be the reverse. Partly, this is what prompted my original question, but I also think that a more integrated forum is a good thing.

Please don't take from this that I think that Meds are the only answer. I agree with a lot of what Supercrew has had to say, in this thread and a lot of others I've read. For me, I was unable to make that shift in thinking though, and baclofen did it for me. I wasn't ever anxious, so it didn't address that part of the equation, it simply removed alcohol as the central topic of every thought process. And I think that for some people, it can simply be a chemical imbalance that causes it. Others have different reasons, and that is what makes this such a complicated bastard to beat!

[startingover]

Prposing chemical solutions in GD

Hiya Bleep.
I enjoy and would actively encourage discussion of meds anywhere. There are so many ways to tackle this addiction, and not just a one size fits all. This is fantastic because if one thing doesnt work, we can try another. Having a range of views to explore can only be a good thing.

Regarding your point about alc no longer forming the central part of your life. That is also the case for many of us who post in GD. We use it more of a forum to connect with like minded people in our day to day lives and not just to discuss alc. I have made some life long friends from here that I meet up with in real life. It has totally changed my life for the better.

I love all these discussions too. Very enlightening and educational Thank you for starting this thread!
Oh and a very happy new year to you