How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

[hidden_gem]

From "Conversations With God", Book Two, Neale Donald Walsch. Copyright 1997 Neale Donald Walsch. First published 1997 by Hampton Roads.

First off - this is neither a religious book, nor an anti-religious book.

What I ultimately seek to do here is to attract atheists AND religious followers to consider the truths posted here. That's all.

"Embrace every circumstance, own every fault, share every joy, contemplate every mystery, walk in every man's shoes, forgive every offense (including your own), heal every heart, honour every person's truth, adore every person's God, protect every person's rights, preserve every person's dignity, promote every person's interests, provide every person's needs, presume every person's holiness, present every person's greatest gifts, produce every person's blessing and pronounce every person's future secure in the assured love of God."

"Make of your life a gift. Remember always, you are the gift!
Be a gift to everyone who enters your life, and to everyone whose life you enter. Be careful not to enter another's life if you cannot be a gift."

"(You can always be a gift, because you always are the gift - yet sometimes you don't let yourself know that.)

"When someone enters your life unexpectedly, look for the gift that person has come to receive from you.

"Every person who has ever come to you has come to receive a gift from you. In so doing, he gives a gift to you - the gift of your experiencing and fulfilling Who You Are.

"When you see this simple truth, when you understand it, you see the greatest truth of all:

I HAVE SENT YOU NOTHING BUT ANGELS."

I just love this passage and would love to hear your thoughts on it.

Gem x

[Flip]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

Hi Gem,

It was great to see a photo of you - thanks for sharing it with us.:h

I am in the middle of a mammoth struggle - I am exploring everything I can in my quest to beat the demon drink and so far I have discovered that it is probably the symptom of my problems (co-dependency), rather that the cause of my problems. This is itself has been liberating and taken the "largeness" out of the drinking problem. I have been able to focus on things other than drinking and it has just taken care of itself in a way.

The real issue for me right now is that as I try and deal with both the drinking and co-dependency issues, I am working with the 12 steps..... which is a spiritual journey - I don't have a spiritual bone in my body. Every time 'God' is mentioned I cringe, I switch off and can't deal with the concept of a higher power.

I just don't know how to overcome this absolute view which I have that there is no higher power. I want to be open to the idea that there is a higher power, but I just can't.

All the books I read don't really address this - they all seem to assume that there is an underlying belief in a higher power even if they don't believe in "God" per se.

This DOES relate to your post - because a lot of the literature on drinking and co-dependency advoctates the same tenents that you have posted here!

Love some views - but not opinions on whether god does or doesn't exist - no arguments ok! :anyone:

Flip

[dilayne]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

Gem, I love this passage. I don't have much to say about it but it resonates true, right and good...and echos the teachings of all the great spiritual teachers. I will certainly be looking for the gift my acquaintences have come to receive from me.
Namaste, as always!
Di

[chrysa]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

I only want to know what you think of it...then I can reply...and would love to...
Peace ~C

[rottrod]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

Gem,

I can't honor every person's truth or adore every person's God, and unfortunately there are those who enter our lives to only take from us not receive from us. I was raised to believe that if you respect people and treat them with kindness that they will always respond to you with kindness, well we certainly know that that isn't true. I'm not totally jaded by bad experience, but I face the reality of the world we live in.

As we shared privately, I think if what you are reading helps you, then by all means you should read it and share it with others. Certainly we should always strive to bring something good to the life of everyone we come into contact with, we never know if that single smile brightened their day.

Like Chrysa, I'd like to know what the passage says to you.

Melissa

[hidden_gem]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

Hi all, and thank you so much for the responses.

Flip – hello! – it seems plenty of people feel like you do and hold a strong view that there’s no higher power. And I agree that it’s a turn-off for a lot of people when God is mentioned, or this higher power. So there’s nothing wrong with substituting yourself- your own belief in your own goodness for that. Whatever works for you and your recovery is the most important thing. What I think is great about your approach is that it means you never “hand over” your power – you are assuming responsibility for what you do and that is why you are so successful with your recovery! My personal belief IS for a higher power – but I find that assistance comes to me only if I accept responsibility for my own actions. So we are not so different in that belief.

Thanks again Di for your comments!

Chrysa and Melissa,
Ok fair enough! Here is what this passage means to me:

"Embrace every circumstance, own every fault, share every joy, contemplate every mystery, walk in every man's shoes, forgive every offense (including your own), heal every heart, honour every person's truth, adore every person's God, protect every person's rights, preserve every person's dignity, promote every person's interests, provide every person's needs, presume every person's holiness, present every person's greatest gifts, produce every person's blessing and pronounce every person's future secure in the assured love of God."

To me, this is the ideal. This is how we would all behave if we could, IF we all had had the perfect upbringing and lived in a perfect world. To read this makes me wonder what the world would be like if we all lived like this. I know, I know… it seems a very tall order. But to me, it’s just enough to make me change my perspective slightly… and that’s the first step. I don’t have all the answers here. I like the ideals.

"Make of your life a gift. Remember always, you are the gift!
Be a gift to everyone who enters your life, and to everyone whose life you enter. Be careful not to enter another's life if you cannot be a gift."
"When someone enters your life unexpectedly, look for the gift that person has come to receive from you.”

Personally I have found that shifting my focus from myself, and my own difficulties with recovery, can be helpful. Instead of focusing on myself and my struggle with alcohol, I have been able to focus on the good I can do for others. The more of that good I do, the more I feel valued, and the more I feel valued, the better I feel about myself, which means that I feel less inclined to dampen my feelings with alcohol.

This is not about self-sacrifice and neglecting my own needs; this is about realizing that no matter what is going on in my own personal struggle, I can still help others. This can be as small as a word of encouragement to someone who is having a bad day.

"Every person who has ever come to you has come to receive a gift from you. In so doing, he gives a gift to you - the gift of your experiencing and fulfilling Who You Are.

Whoever crosses my path during the day gives me the opportunity to demonstrate who I want to be. For example, do I want to be the person who harassed and too busy to help? I can be that. Or do I want to be the person who kindly explains that I will help, but can we do it later? I can be that too.

"When you see this simple truth, when you understand it, you see the greatest truth of all:

I HAVE SENT YOU NOTHING BUT ANGELS."

This is probably best demonstrated by a discussion I had with a colleague about three days ago. A few of us were having a discussion about bullying at school (prompted by a news article). One girl said, “There’s a guy I knew from high school that I would spit at if I saw him on the street… he used to bully me. If I saw him and I had a gun, I’d shoot him.” I said, “That’s such a strong response after so long… he must have hurt you quite badly.” She said, “I still hate him so much… I know I should let it go but he made my life hell.”

I said, “Was there anything good that came out of it?” She was appalled. “No way! That was the worst time of my life.” I asked her, “Well, did you learn anything from that situation?” She said, “No. Just to stay away from people like him!” I asked, “Then, has there ever been a time where you’ve come across someone in a similar situation, and you’ve been able to help them – because you’ve been through it too?” Her whole face broke into a smile of recognition, and she said, “Yes… I DID help someone out. Oh wow!” And for that moment, she actually felt good about it.

She made a connection in that minute of what she’d been able to bring to someone else, because she had developed compassion through the situation. I know it was a lucky break (I couldn’t ask everyone those questions – some people would punch me in the mouth!) – but it was a great moment. That is what is meant by “I have sent you nothing but angels.” That guy who bullied her was an angel that brought her the ability to help another later in life. He taught her compassion. But she was not able to see that until many years later.

Whenever I find that I am still holding a grudge, I look for the good that came out of the situation. Often I can’t find it at the time. That’s normal! Often it doesn’t come out until months or years later. (There’s a good few I’m still looking out for!)

To tie this back in with recovery; often I find that I am tempted to drink when I just can’t deal with my feelings. They are hardest to handle when I am seeing myself as a victim, with all of the injustices I perceive to be perpetrated against me. When I accept that others have their part to play, I retrieve my own power, and I resume control of my life again. Then I don’t need to obliterate myself with alcohol.

Sorry about the length of the post! – but I was asked for my interpretation, and I wanted to give a truthful and complete answer.

Much love,

Gem x

[southernbelle47]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists



I agree.....it's the "Roses from ashes" theory.

In the garden....things have to die for something beautiful to live.



:h Nancy

[bootcampbarbie]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

i was just running through here and read your posts gem. i loved every morsel of it. seems to be what i feel and reading it brought me to a good place about a friendship i'm about to complete. thanks for the reminder. tis good. he was a gift in my life. and right now that gift looks like i really love myself too much to allow myself to be around people that don't appreciate or see me. so, thank you my friend. i can se the beauty of what is becoming. smiles

[Guest]

How Can I Begin? - for Believers, Agnostics and Atheists

Gem, I appreciated your post.
It made me feel very humble as I for one, seem to take so much for granted.

I am agnostic, but looking back over my life, I feel I must acknowledge the fact that I have sought comfort in God when I felt as though I had nowhere else to turn. My alcohol dependency sees me once more needing to `believe`. I remain very confused as regards the depth of my faith. I only know that until 2 wks. ago, I was in the deepest despair as I couldn`t envisage an end to my nightly drinking, until some `thing` or `one` took my hand and led me to the start of my journey of recovery.

I have always felt that there is indeed a God, in that I have always believed that there is some sort of `good force` in life. I am striving to nurture my little faith. As an alcoholic, I need `something` to hold onto...............Sometimes, like now, my struggle makes me feel so very emotional.

Thanks for your post.

Starlight Impress