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    1. #1
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      beatle's Avatar

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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Keep in mind that I had an extensive list of questions and did not have time to get to them all. Also, the conversation takes on a life (and direction) of its own. (More about Trazadone in a later post.)

      – As AL consumption goes down, less SEs. And improvement happens faster with reduced drinking (I didn’t get to ask him if the switch point might also be lower if you are AF.)
      But “I don’t want to get you crazy about it” (mentioned something about stress and increased adrenalin levels being detrimental to treatment). “My job is to make sure that you cut down, not your job. My job is to turn the chemistry off.”

      – Works closely with Dr. A, and if he had any questions, he would consult Dr. A immediately.

      – Regarding brands of baclofen:
      Doesn’t know anything about brands. Didn’t even know what brands are being dispensed for his prescriptions.*
      Just believes the U.S.-filled prescriptions are safer because they go through a pharmacy (which would apply elsewhere, i.e. Europe). He said the pharmacies are “strict on quality”, not “fly-by-night”.
      (Didn’t even know the brand name Lioresal. Had to ask me to spell it and looked it up. Didn’t know Novartis, either. He is only concerned about the overseas internet-dispatched products because they are not controlled).

      – After you stop drinking, it takes about 1 -1.5 years for your brain to “normalize” and then it will “continue to improve”. He also used the word “maximize”. I’m a little confused on this point – but I think he meant your brain will start recovering from the time you stop drinking, but it will take 1-1.5 years before this process (of improvement and rebuilding the brain) is “maximized”.

      – Most people respond to baclofen at 210 to 275 mg (later in my notes I wrote “250-260 => Golden level”)… weight has nothing to do with it. It’s all “chemistry and genetics.” I didn’t get to ask him what “respond” means – but I think he meant reach indifference. I also didn’t get to ask him what “most people” means—90%, 70%? (Also didn’t get to ask him if the length of time and how much you have been drinking play a role.)

      – SEs:
      He said “I don’t want there to be any SEs. I don’t want it to be different than water.”

      When I asked him about hallucinations, he said he had never heard of hallucinations as an SE of baclofen. “(You are) a genetic anomaly” (is this true? I thought a lot of other people had reported this.. maybe not.)

      – From my notes:
      “BDFN kicks with the GABA reception… first connection… bac undoes this connection…
      “Like you never had any alcohol in your life. Just like magic. It stops. It turns itself off. And it will stay there for the rest of your life.”

      *I did not mean this in a denegrading way, although it sounds like it. In fact, his lack of knowledge about the different brands only proves, and attests to, his complete separation from the various baclofen producers. I probably should have written: "To his credit, he doesn't know anything..."

    2. #2
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Beatle,

      Thanks for that report form someone who prob. has the most experience with BAC and AL in the US. Did you ask him or have an idea of how many patients he has treated with BAC?

      Thanks.

    3. #3
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Thanks so much beatle. I'm despairing a bit atm, and would like to talk to you more, off-line about this. (pertaining only to my own situation, folks.)
      Vital, vital information.
      Rock on.
      xo

    4. #4
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Beatle,
      What is BDFN?
      Thanks
      Sunny

    5. #5
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Sunnyvalenting;1051851 wrote:
      What is BDFN?
      She means BDNFs, I believe. It stands for brain-derived neurotrophic factors. Dr. L told me about them in regards to the June 2009 Science article. Basically, when the BDNFs bond with the GABA receptors, you end up with addiction. The study apparently showed that baclofen destroys those bonds.

    6. #6
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Beatle, thanks for the helpful post. It's always good to hear what the actual expert has to say, and you are a goddess for sharing it.

    7. #7
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Thanks beatle. Would love to know what "maximise" meant. Also, his cure rate.

      I suppose length of time depends solely on getting to the "golden dose"? You know what that means....

    8. #8
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      37degrees;1051825 wrote: Did you ask him or have an idea of how many patients he has treated with BAC?
      Last Octoberish, when I spoke to him he told me he (currently I think) was treating over 100 patients.

    9. #9
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      He told me he "has" more than 200 patients. But I don't think that is the number he has treated -- just the number he is treating now.

      Yes, many of these questions I want answered, too. Maybe we can consolidate a list and I'll try to focus on those items next time. I know, as Nev keeps saying, I should focus on myself, but many of the questions others have are the same as my own. And others, that I hadn't thought of, are also of great interest to me.

      So, I'm not sure. Would be good to get a consolidated list of questions together, though. I might be able to get him to read through it and answer the questions -- maybe we should all pitch in to pay him to do it (we certainly can't expect him to do it for free -- although I think that the time is the issue, not the money). He made it very clear at the beginning of our conversation (when I asked him if he had read my email) that he gets hundreds and thousands of emails, and has hundreds of patients and is working on books and scientific papers and has his teaching responsibilities... at first it put me off a little, but I realized it is true, and he wasn't being high on his horse, he was just telling it like it is, which I really appreciate. And it gave me even more respect and gratefulness for him -- I do believe he believes he needs to do this... nobody els (almost) is doing it and, with what he knows, he has to help as many people as possible.

      Whew, that was a lot. I'm not going to do any editing on my posts before I post them anymore... I am spending over half my day (and most of my evenings) at this point on MWO. I just have to pull in the reins (even though I do get so much out of it).

      A few more posts now, and then I won't look here until tonight.

      Sorry for the rambling.

    10. #10
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      Notes from my discussion with Dr. L

      Yep, as we thought reducing drinking, or going AF gives you a better ride. Interesting about the stress thing because I was told in several rehabs this is a disease of stress, and that minimising stress increases your chances of recovery. Maybe the rehabs got this right?
      They (rehabs) also say you can suffer from PAWS for up to 12 months after stopping drinking by conventional methods. So is this what he's referring to in saying it can take 1-1.5 years for the brain to normalise?Of course this information can't be true because it's all rehabs saying this, and the opinion I keep getting is that rehabs talk a load of rubbish.

      If it does tally then it makes a lot of sense really and isn't anything new, but I'm not doubting anything he does say - in fact it just backs it all up.

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