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  1. #131
    Registered User. Bruunhilde's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Isn't there some research behind the idea that you can deplete yourself of seretonin in a few ways, like ADs or drugs/al, and you can also not make enough? Thus the ADs wouldn't work if you don't have any seretonin to reuptake, so the answer is to take trytophan to help create seretonin but make sure you have lots of vitamin C and B's first?

    Just throwing this out there. No expert.

  2. #132
    Registered User. Otter's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Causation v. Correlation:

    Generalized Anxiety Disorder in Stroke Patients : A 3-Year Longitudinal Study

    The study showed that "none" of the subjects had GAD prior to stroke. So, "apparently" stroke causes GAD.

    Bipolar:

    This is the only study of baclofen on mania: Growth hormone response to baclofe... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1999] - PubMed - NCBI. There are a number of studies which show bipolar is a condition of the amygdala. The question is , does it work on Bipolar? Is the term just another description of "anxiety"? What is the orgainic difference between the amygdala in someone with GAD and someone with Bipolar? The statistics I have read are that somewhere in the region of 80% of bipolar patients medicate with alcohol.

    viz. http://pediatricbipolar.stanford.edu...ala_BD_dev.pdf
    The amygdala has been strongly linked to a
    variety of anxiety disorders in youth and adults,
    including social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder
    (GAD), and simple phobia (Goossens, Sunaert,
    Peeters, Griez, & Schruers, 2007). The
    amygdala’s role in fear conditioning is likely the
    reason for its role in anxiety disorders (see reviews
    by Pine, 2007; Rauch, Shin, & Wright, 2003;
    Stein,Westenberg,&Liebowitz, 2002). This concept
    is supported by studies demonstrating higher
    levels of self-reported fear following fear conditioning
    paradigms in youthwith anxiety disorders
    (Lau et al., 2008). In general, amygdalar overactivation
    has been reported in anxiety disorders.
    Youth with GAD have been found to have amygdalar
    overactivation when viewing angry (Monk
    et al., 2008) or fearful faces (McClure et al.,
    2007). A recent meta-analysis found increased
    amygdalar activation in studies of posttraumatic
    stress disorder, social anxiety disorder, and specific
    phobia (Etkin & Wager, 2007). Amygdalar
    underactivation may also be relevant, as in adults
    withGAD. In adults withGAD, greater treatment
    response to venlafaxine was predicted by less
    amygdalar activation to fearful faces (Whalen
    et al., 2008).


    Serotonin:

    Joan Larson gives a good description in Seven Weeks to Sobriety of the depletion of serotonin through drinking with the result that SSRI's are particularly useless in treatment of alcoholism. She uses L-Tryptophan to treat with B and C vitamins. Interestingly the "third generation" anti-depressant Optimax is just L-Tryptophan.

  3. #133
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    I read the GAD study. It doesnt say that Stroke causes GAD. It is correlated. There are other variables that have to be accounted for. Such as social isolation after stroke,etc. will read the rest soon. Thanks for posting.

  4. #134
    Registered User. Otter's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    gratitude;1222710 wrote: I read the GAD study. It doesnt say that Stroke causes GAD. It is correlated. There are other variables that have to be accounted for. Such as social isolation after stroke,etc. will read the rest soon. Thanks for posting.
    The report says that stroke is commonly is associated with GAD. If one accepts that GAD is a neurological brain disorder of the amygdala then it would seem to me to be likely that the damage to the brain caused by stoke actually "causes" damage to the brain which results in GAD. Otherwise, what you are saying is that either stroke does not cause brain damage, which it does, or that this damage doesn't amount to GAD and that, then, there are some other factors which come into play which somehow cause this brain disorder. Or, you could be saying that GAD is not a brain disorder at all and neither is addictive craving, which sort of misses the point of all these people here using chemicals to correct something in their brains.

  5. #135
    Registered User. Otter's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    It says that they are commonly associated conditions in people who did not have GAD before their strokes.
    I would say that the social isolation is a result of social anxiety stemming from GAD, not the other way around.

  6. #136
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    seems to me Im ok with anxiety on low dose bacs. Bacs seems effective,but take some time to be effective. Its not like benzos where anxiety relief is is quick. Also never take too much at once as it,may increase anxiety,herat rate,blood pessure,etc with dissocation,hallucinations,paranoia,euphoria.Baclo fen is a GABA B agonist with phenethylamines mixture.The phenethylamine effect goes away with time,leaving GABA B to work its anticraving job. This is why u need to SLOWLY increase dose. Sudden sharp increase in dose is asking for trouble. Also also step down slowly as well or risk horrid withdrawals esp at high doses many of u guys are taking. Stay safe !

  7. #137
    Registered User. Otter's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    That is very interesting. Never heard it explained that way before. Thanks.

  8. #138
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    rangiatea;1222753 wrote: seems to me Im ok with anxiety on low dose bacs. Bacs seems effective,but take some time to be effective. Its not like benzos where anxiety relief is is quick. Also never take too much at once as it,may increase anxiety,herat rate,blood pessure,etc with dissocation,hallucinations,paranoia,euphoria.Baclo fen is a GABA B agonist with phenethylamines mixture.The phenethylamine effect goes away with time,leaving GABA B to work its anticraving job. This is why u need to SLOWLY increase dose. Sudden sharp increase in dose is asking for trouble. Also also step down slowly as well or risk horrid withdrawals esp at high doses many of u guys are taking. Stay safe !
    Otter;1221535 wrote: There is just too much talk here about whether SSRIs or Baclofen treat this or that word, anxiety, depression, etc. Drugs treat the brain, not words. Baclofen treats the amygdala and limbic systems. SSRI's are reuptake inhibitors, whatever that means or good it does. They stop serotonin from "escaping", that is, if your drinking has left you with any serotonin to escape, which is unlikely.

    Bipolar is a disorder of the amygdala so Baclofen would work on that. http://pediatricbipolar.stanford.edu...ala_BD_dev.pdf

    The question is, why would Baclofen not work on bipolar and is it just another variation of "anxiety" which is treated with Baclofen? Manic - anxious, same thing?

    Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclo... [Neuropsychobiology. 1983] - PubMed - NCBI

    Neuropsychobiology. 1983;9(4):219-22.
    Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclofen.
    Wolf ME, Keener S, Mathis P, Mosnaim AD.
    Abstract

    Baclofen therapy resulted in improvement of dyskinesias only in patients with trunkal tardive dyskinesia. However, the appearance of undesirable side effects did not warrant continuation of treatment with this drug. Baclofen did not have any therapeutic effect in schizophrenia and moreover a trend towards a worsening of the psychiatric conditions with irritability, assaultiveness and prominent auditory hallucinations was observed
    . The effects of baclofen on tardive dyskinesia and schizophrenia can be explained in terms of its phenylethylamine-like properties.

    PMID:
    6646393
    [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


    From the full-text: Baclofen is postulated to inhibit dopamine transmission, be an antagonist of Substance P, and an agonist of PEA. Of 10 patients in the study 5 were schizophrenic, 4 were bipolar, 1 organic mental disorder. Baclofen caused mania and irritability in 2 of the bipolar patients (each respectively)
    , and varied amounts of irritability, assaultiveness, and hallucinations in 4 of the schizophrenic patients.

    -tk

  9. #139
    Registered User. Ne/Neva Eva's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    oops. That was it. I should have read the full version! Sorry.

  10. #140
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Interesting stuff. As have otherwise indicated, my brother is a neurologist who runs a research institute focusing on rehabilitative neuroscience, and this gives me even more reason to want to chat about Baclofen with him. Also because I think that the amygdala dysfunction underlying my issues is also at play with what's happened with other members of our family. Will be interesting to see whether it's something he thinks is worth discussing.

    My wife is becoming more and more convinced that Baclofen is a wonder drug. Interestingly, she's a neurobiologist by training. I haven't discussed the degree to which amygdala dysfunction may have played a role in our family's near-miss disintegration -- but that disintegration clearly has been an issue! Tonight she said we might be on our way to our first happy holiday as a family ever. How cool is that?

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