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  1. #11
    Registered User. LadyLush's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Gratitude,

    Thank God Cassander brought u Bac! Damn, I lost my praying man emoticon@


    LL

  2. #12
    Registered User. LadyLush's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    All, It is a known user....................

    You are Excellent at gathering information. Excellent. I am newer with a background and knowledge you never expected? Game is on!

    LL

  3. #13
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Thanks to all for the kind and informative replies. I have edited/updated the list of reports in my first post (#1) to try to make it more comprehensive of all of the reports relating to anxiety and substance abuse and relief of anxiety by baclofen.

    I must say that the frequent use of terms like "miraculous", "profound", "vanished", "amazing", "eternally grateful", and "best" in the reports to describe the effect of baclofen on anxiety is itself nothing short of amazing.

    My hope is that forumites will continue to add their experiences and understanding of these issues so that this thread can be a resource for all interested in this aspect of the problem.

  4. #14
    Registered User. bleep's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Hi Cassander,

    That's some list! I shudder to think how long that took, but I realise that I too spent ages reading every post on this site when I discovered it. Best of luck with your son. My advice would be to just go for it. The sooner you start, the sooner you will know whether or not it works.

  5. #15
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    I am pasting here part of a post from MurphyX from earlier today which discusses the anxiety issue. I don't profess to remotely know how often anxiety and alcoholism are linked, but it is not surprising at all (to me) that some have cravings without the pre-existing anxiety. The interesting thing is how well baclofen seems to work where there is both anxiety and alcohol abuse.


    "Eventually I realised, the problem wasn?t the amount of baclofen, it was my attitude to it. I expected baclofen to take away my cravings, when in actual fact, all it was doing for me, all it ever could do for me, was reduce my desire for booze, just as it had 5 months ago at 150mg.

    The switch doesn?t exist for me. And I think I know why. I don?t suffer from anxiety. I?m not anxious; I never have been, well not as an adult anyway. Except for a period long ago when I was an actor, when I was almost paralysed with fear and tension and loss of concentration and I would be shitting myself on a daily basis (figuratively speaking, not literally?well almost never literally), but once I walked out on to the stage or the set I was absolutely calm and in control. Apart from that time, I have never been even slightly anxious. I don?t worry about things irrationally. I?m not tense. I?m not easily startled. I?ve never had a panic attack. I?m not edgy or irritable, except when drunk. I?m not concerned about how others perceive me. I know that if I have to chat with someone, I can do so easily (although perhaps not when Skyping lol). I?m simply not anxious.

    Baclofen is an anxiolytic. It relieves anxiety and panic and it relaxes muscles (another symptom of anxiety). THAT is how you achieve true indifference. THAT is how you switch. If you drink because of anxiety, baclofen can help you to 100% indifference. Anxiety seems to be such a common theme amongst us here. I?ve lost count of the number of times I?ve read people reporting relief of their anxiety, sometimes even though they didn?t previously even realise they were anxious. But if that?s not the reason you drink, then you won?t permanently switch. You won?t reach 100% indifference. And why I never will, no matter what dosage I go up to.

    I suspect those who didn?t suffer from anxiety but who have achieved long-term abstinence, have employed a certain amount of willpower/white-knuckling in order to do so. But nowhere near as much as they would have needed without the assistance of baclofen. Baclofen helps reduce our cravings, even if it doesn?t eliminate them. It worked wonders for me at 150 mg. Many people have reported great results at much lower doses; in extreme cases, even from the very first pill.

    Baclofen works, not just for the anxious, but for almost everyone.

    Baclofen works, just not in the way we?d all like it to."

  6. #16
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Ne/Neva Eva;1141395 wrote:

    ...
    Anxiety is not a separate issue from indifference. I was one of the ones who did not know that I suffered from anxiety. This, even after years and years of therapy, some of which was with the best shrinks on the east coast (U.S.) My mom is a psychologist. I am very familiar with introspection, CBT, and most other forms of therapeutic thought-alteration. Didn't work and I've never been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder.

    I didn't know because I thought I was simply eccentric, and skittish, and flighty. I assumed that everyone wakes their husband in the middle of the night in order to make sure he's breathing. Or plans for emergencies in relation to walking the dog around the neighborhood. It turns out that my default reflex is akin to an Afghani! :H Always with the adrenaline rush, the flight-or-fight reaction, whether it's a house spider or a neighbor's golden retriever.

    The ramifications of this are so overwhelming, so pervasive and so elusive that I had no idea
    how much it colored every aspect of my life. Until it was simply gone. I don't know that it was a switch, I think it might have been gradual. But I suspect it is this thing, or the absence of it, that keeps me indifferent to alcohol.

    The dangerous thing about anxiety is that it is completely subjective. If someone had asked me if I were an anxious person a year ago I would have been shocked! Most of those who know me would say that I'm pretty laid back, a go-with-the-flow kind of person. Those who know me intimately know that I am the antithesis of that.

    Indifference is fluid, almost by definition. Anxiety is underrated. Baclofen works.
    I have added Ne's comments about anxiety from another thread (quoted above) to this thread -- trying to collect as much as I can on this topic in one place.

    If I can summarize Murphy and Ne's colloquy...it seems that HDB is more likely to result in indifference where the alcoholic acknowledges pre-existing chronic anxiety (Ne) than where (s)he doesn't (Murphy). Is that right?

    Another interesting observation is that the subject may not even appreciate living with chronic anxiety until it is relieved. Its like, "I didn't know what I was feeling was pain until I wasn't feeling it anymore...It was just my normal."

  7. #17
    Registered User. bleep's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    That's pretty close to what we now believe to be accurate. Seems to change as we discover more and more though!

    Although indifference is still reached if you aren't a chronic anxiety sufferer. You quoted me in your first post saying I didn't realise I was anxious until it left - while anxiety is too strong a word, by far, certainly something left me. Now I am indifferent, certainly, but not in the same way that someone who was perhaps anxious to start with could be.

    A long winded way of saying yes, really.

  8. #18
    Registered User. Ne/Neva Eva's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Hi!
    Again, nice job!

    I hope you'll remember that these are musings of a sort. We're sort of sussing our way through it, and feeling it out as we go along. I can't tell you how many times I've read something rather convincing, or posted it myself, only to completely rethink or retract it later.

    I do think that anxiety has something to do with the whole baclofen equation, if for no other reason than because Dr. Ameisen posed that as part of his hypothesis as to why bac works. It's one of the things that they are specifically looking into in the current study out of University of Amsterdam.

    Have you shared any of this information with your son?

    Good luck Cassander!

  9. #19
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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    Hi Ne. I totally get the sussing part, and the musing, too. I'm just thinking that the cumulative musings may lead to some truths about the relationship between alcoholism and anxiety and the effect of baclofen on the condition...sort of by triangulation, if you will. Don't you agree?

  10. #20
    Registered User. Ne/Neva Eva's Avatar

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    Baclofen and Anxiety

    WOOOOHOOOOOO! He's working with Dr. L and 4 weeks in? That's fantastic! I'm very happy for all of you!

    I say that because I believe that means he's in good hands and that the process will be rather less painful. As to the issues... Ha! Mine are so much less of an issue now that the big one is gone, that I forget what it was like to be completely run over by that speeding train in my brain on a regular basis. Really. For all my musings and whinings and the whole bit, when I get some perspective about where I was 6 months ago, I am amazed. Truly astounded.

    And yes, good point about the "helping." My very supportive parents decided that this particular journey was going to be without their active participation. (After checking it out to make sure that bac was safe and that there was at least a little basis in fact behind the process! :H)
    I was a bit put out about it in the beginning, but now I'm so grateful that they were not along for every step of the ride. They, too, are simply amazed, and don't know to what they should attribute the change... Though they know about the bac. It's my little (huge) not-so-secret weapon. Slayed the beast and then some.
    He'll have plenty of time to create some stuff to work on after he finds the solution to the One Big Thing.
    Sorry that I assumed you were the mom and not the dad! It's really great that you are working more on your understanding of the disease and the process, though it doesn't sound as though you were ignoring that before.
    :l to you!
    Ne

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