Anyone ever heard of phenibut being useful in alcoholism?

[Greg]

Phenibut is a GABA-B agonist, like baclofen, although it's also said to have a couple of extra effects. It's also said to be potentially addictive, unlike baclofen. With this addiction, I don't know if it's just tolerance to sedation and withdrawal symptoms (with sudden discontinuation) people are talking about, both of which happen with baclofen too.

My reason for asking this question is that I have tried phenibut at a dose equivalent to 100 mg of baclofen, and tolerated it far better than that dose of baclofen, without any addictive desire to keep using it. That could be different with regular use of course. I imagine it could help reduce alcohol cravings, due to being a GABA-B agonist, although I was not trying it for this purpose during my experiments. It would also be far cheaper for me to get, and also easier to get, than equivalent amounts of baclofen.

I know what I'm thinking of is risky, and I'm certainly not suggesting anyone else try this, but I am just wondering if anyone has ever heard of an alcohol-dependent person successfully using it, the way baclofen is used.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Anyone ever heard of phenibut being useful in alcoholism?

Hi, Greg!
There was a thread a while back where some people were using/had used phenibut the way you're talking about. Sadly, it seems as though it takes more and more of it for the same effect. It also seems as though it's a "feel good" drug, which makes me very wary.
I think Phenibut was in the title of the thread.

Hang in there, Greg!

[hoping4better]

Anyone ever heard of phenibut being useful in alcoholism?

I haven't heard of it, but google it and see what comes up. Please share if you find something worthwhile!

[terryk]

Anyone ever heard of phenibut being useful in alcoholism?

[Effect of phenibut on the behavi... [Eksp Klin Farmakol. 2005 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

Eksp Klin Farmakol. 2005 May-Jun;68(3):42-5.
[Effect of phenibut on the behavior of experimental animals under conditions of voluntary chronic alcoholism].
[Article in Russian]
Tiurenkov IN, Voronkov AV, Borodkina LE.
Abstract

The effect of phenibut on the locomotor and orientation-research activity, as well as on the alcohol and food motivation, was studied on experimental animals under conditions of voluntary chronic alcoholism. Phenibut decreased the manifestations of alcohol-induced behavioral disorders and reduced alcohol motivation.

PMID:
16047680
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



From Wikipedia:

In chemical structure, phenibut is a phenyl derivative of GABA. Although the calming action is similar to other GABA agonists, 4-amino-3-phenylbutyric acid binds the GABAB metabotropic receptor, the same site responsible for the sedative effects of baclofen (the para-chloro derivative of phenibut) and γ-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), although GHB also acts at the GHB receptor.[5] There is dispute in the literature about whether or not Phenibut binds to the GABAA ionotropic receptor, which is responsible for the actions of the benzodiazepines, barbiturates, z-drugs, and for some of the effects of ethanol. According to Allikmetz and Ryage (1983) and Shulgina (1986) phenibut does bind to the GABAA receptor,[2] but according to Lapin (2001) it does not.[1] In the case of the former, it is argued that the GABAA binding only occurs at higher concentrations.[2]

If phenibut does in fact have action at the GABAA receptor, it would function like a benzo (at least somewhat) and most likely carry with it a similar euphoric component as well as the tolerance, dependence and withdrawal upon cessation. I've read some stories around the internet (Bluelight.ru, erowid.org, etc) Baclofen has no action at the GABAA site, only GABAB.

From: Withdrawal symptoms after Internet pu... [J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

"[The patient took phenibut for a total of 10 days and experienced relief of symptoms from restless leg syndrome.] Four days before this appointment, the patient stopped taking phenibut altogether and, within 2 to 4 hours, started experiencing the following symptoms: nervousness and shakiness inside, psychomotor agitation, feeling easily annoyed and irritated, fatigue, poor appetite, heart pounding and racing, nausea, insomnia, and feeling tense and keyed up. The patient did not recall experiencing any of the aforementioned symptoms before or while taking phenibut. He only noticed the symptoms when he stopped taking phenibut. To determine whether this was a withdrawal from phenibut, the patient took half the amount of phenibut he usually ingested (1/2 g) and felt almost immediate relief of his symptoms. He continued to wean himself from phenibut by taking half of the recommended amount over a span of 4 days. All in all, the patient took phenibut for 2 weeks. By the time he came for this appointment, he was no longer taking phenibut."

It also says that it (phenibut is a GABAB *and* GABAA agonist (I'm sure there's still a debate). Missing a dose or two of baclofen has never given me withdrawals or too much pause at all. Some of my older posts recall when I began to experience baclofen withdrawal during a drastic limitation of dose, after *2-3* days. I am painfully familiar with the alcohol and benzo withdrawal that comes right on time if the next dose is not forthcoming. You say that you've benzos without becoming addicted before....I, as a former user of benzos to stave off alcohol withdrawals (clonazepam, lorazepam) wouldn't risk it. -tk

[Greg]

Anyone ever heard of phenibut being useful in alcoholism?

Thanks for this information Terry.

I would have to say that I'd now prefer to use baclofen instead of phenibut, due to baclofen being a far more pure GABA-B agonist by the sound of it. I have also read stories of phenibut tolerance and withdrawal that sound worse than with bac. It is also said to have effects on dopamine, and phenylethylamine (?) I think. I'd imagine these extra effects would make it more complicated to use and discontinue. I will add that I have also found it rather unreliable in effects, or at least far less potent than it is said to be. I now have serious doubts that 1.5 grams phenibut=100 mg baclofen, for example. Due to it only being manufactured as a "supplement" I have more doubts about its purity/strength than with online-ordered baclofen.

As for benzo dependence, I did classify myself as having been dependent on Xanax in a physical sense, due to being unable to quit cold turkey without serious symptoms. I don't want to sound like I'm playing down benzo dependence, as I know it is a serious issue for many, and I'd agree that it would be a better idea to rely on a pure GABA-B agonist (bac) rather than a mixed GABA-B and GABA-A one (phenibut).