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Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 03:45 PM
Old news; but still GOOD NEWS for moderate drinkers
Benefits of Moderate Drinking Result from Alcohol Itself
by David J. Hanson, Ph.D.

Some writers have been arguing that wine drinkers tend to be healthier than others because they generally have better health habits, not because they consume alcohol.

It?s true that wine drinkers tend to have better health habits than many others do. However, that can?t explain away the established medical fact that the moderate consumption of beer, wine or distilled spirits improves health and longevity. Both beer and liquor tend to confer the same health benefits as red wine; the benefit is found in the alcohol rather than in a specific beverage.

Alcohol reduces heart attacks, ichemic strokes and circulatory problems through a number of identified ways. They include:
Improving blood lipid profile by increasing HDL ("good") cholesterol and decreasing LDL ("bad") cholesterol.
Decreasing thrombosis (blood clotting) by reducing platelet aggregation, reducing fibrinogen (a blood clotter) and increasing fibrinolysis (the process by which clots dissolve).
Other ways such as increasing coronary blood flow, reducing blood pressure, and reducing blood insulin level.

The moderate consumption of alcohol appears to be more effective than most other lifestyle changes that are used to lower the risk of heart and other diseases. For example, the average person would need to follow a very strict low-fat diet, exercise vigorously on a regular basis, eliminate salt from the diet, lose a substantial amount of weight, and probably begin medication in order to lower cholesterol by 30 points or blood pressure by 20 points.
But medical research suggests that alcohol can have a greater impact on heart disease than even these hard-won reductions in cholesterol levels or blood pressure. Only cessation of smoking is more effective. Additionally, other medical research suggests that adding alcohol to a healthful diet is more effective than just following the diet alone.

After reviewing the research on heart diseases and stroke, Dr. David Whitten reported that "we don't have any drugs that are as good as alcohol" and noted investigator Dr. Curtis Ellison asserted that "abstinence from alcohol is a major risk factor for coronary heart disease."
The moderate consumption of alcohol appears to be beneficial in reducing or preventing even more diseases and health problems including angina pectoris bone fractures and osteoporosis, diabetes, digestive ailments, duodenal ulcer, erectile dysfunction (ED), essential tremors, gallstones, hearing loss, hepatitis A, kidney stones, liver disease, macular degeneration (a major cause of blindness), pancreatic cancer, Parkinson?s disease, poor cognition and memory, poor physical condition in elderly, rheumatoid arthritis, stress and depression, and type B gastritis.
It?s not surprising that the science-based Harvard Healthy Eating Pyramid recommends the regular moderate consumption of alcohol (beer, wine, or spirits) unless contraindicated.
It?s clear that the moderate consumption of alcohol improves health and increases longevity.
__________________

AND MORE:

Want to live longer? Toss back a few cocktails
Alcohol in moderation may extend life span, researchers find
Moderate drinking may lengthen your life, while too much may shorten it, researchers from Italy report. Their conclusion is based on pooled data from 34 large studies involving more than 1 million people and 94,000 deaths.
According to the data, drinking a moderate amount of alcohol ? up to four drinks per day in men and two drinks per day in women ? reduces the risk of death from any cause by roughly 18 percent, the team reports in the Archives of Internal Medicine.
However, "things radically change" when consumption goes beyond these levels, study leader Dr. Augusto Di Castelnuovo, from Catholic University of Campobasso, said in a statement.
Men who have more than four drinks per day and women who have more than two drinks per day not only lose the protection that alcohol affords, but they increase their risk of death, the data indicate.
The reason why men are protected at up to four drinks per day, while women lose the protection after two glasses has to do with how men and women metabolize alcohol, researchers say. It?s been shown that when men and women who drink the same amount of alcohol, women experience higher blood alcohol levels than men.
Therefore, women who consume more than two glasses of alcohol per day may be at increased risk for diseases of the liver and certain types of cancer.
"Our findings, while confirming the hazards of excess drinking, indicate potential windows of alcohol intake that may confer a net beneficial effect of moderate drinking, at least in terms of survival," the Italian team concludes.
"Heavy drinkers should be urged to cut their consumption, but people who already regularly consume low to moderate amounts of alcohol should be encouraged to continue," they add.
The manner in which alcohol is consumed also appears to be important, the researchers report. "Little amounts, preferably during meals, this appears to be the right way (to drink alcohol)," said Dr. Giovanni de Gaetano of Catholic University, another author on the study. "This is another feature of the Mediterranean diet, where alcohol, wine above all, is the ideal partner of a dinner or lunch, but that?s all: the rest of the day must be absolutely alcohol-free."
"The message carried by scientific studies like ours is simple," Dr. de Gaetano continued. "Alcohol can be a respectful guest on our table, but it is good just when it goes with a healthy lifestyle, where moderation leads us toward a consumption inspired by quality not by quantity."

A Work in Progress
March 10th, 2009, 03:53 PM
The same things.... posted over and over again....

Marshy
March 10th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Kid Shelleen;568403 wrote:

reduces the risk of death from any cause

You're not seriously suggesting we can achieve eternal life through moderation? :H :H

This is so shoddy...

peacenik
March 10th, 2009, 05:13 PM
if only most of us here could moderate...we wouldn't be here trying to stop or to learn to moderate!!!!

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 06:17 PM
Replay...

Peacenik,
Like everyone else who takes advantage of this wonderful site,
I know you have probably read RJs book and story,
so you know
MWO was started for people who want to moderate.

It's OK if the ABBers are here and they choose to utilize MWO to abstain.
When they continuously condemn ANY intake of alcohol it starts to get on my nerves,
so I defend the Modder Lifestyle that RJ has helped me achieve and maintain.
I don't PROMOTE alcohol.
If someone thinks they shouldn't drink; I COMPLETELY AGREE.
THEY shouldn't drink!!
How's that?:)
~Kid~

A Work in Progress
March 10th, 2009, 06:20 PM
Kid Shelleen;568563 wrote: Peacenik,
Like everyone else who takes advantage of this wonderful site,
I know you have probably read RJs book and story,
so you know
MWO was started for people who want to moderate.

It's OK if the ABBers are here and they choose to utilize MWO to abstain.

Well THANKS for saying it's OK we are here! (Where's that laughing smilie??)

Actually, Kid, here's what RJ said when she created this website:

My Way Out is an easy to follow program to overcome dependence on alcohol. You can decide whether you want to stop drinking forever or change your habits and body chemistry so that you can drink moderately, in a controlled way. Some of you will make that decision right up front and for others, your choice will evolve over time. Both goals are achievable and My Way Out will help get you there.

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Thanks WIP

I have a feeling there are some that have never seen that paragraph!
Both camps can share this turf EQUALLY at the very least...
Word up to those who think the Modders are the ugly stepchildren...
We own it too..
~Kid Shelleen~

peacenik
March 10th, 2009, 07:04 PM
Kid Shelleen;568563 wrote: Peacenik,
Like everyone else who takes advantage of this wonderful site,
I know you have probably read RJs book and story,
so you know
MWO was started for people who want to moderate.

It's OK if the ABBers are here and they choose to utilize MWO to abstain.
When they continuously condemn ANY intake of alcohol it starts to get on my nerves,
so I defend the Modder Lifestyle that RJ has helped me achieve and maintain.
I don't PROMOTE alcohol.
If someone thinks they shouldn't drink; I COMPLETELY AGREE.
THEY shouldn't drink!!
How's that?:)
~Kid~
i'm not here to argue, i did say those of us who want to abstain or learn to moderate, didn't i?

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 07:52 PM
Zennie, you're right...

And the ones that do it know what they're doing;
and I don't pretend to be a Buddhist .
If someone pushes; I push back.
I don't stop until they do..and then I STOP;
graciously and immediately...
Good manners are a two way street here
and I'm through walking on eggshells...
Thanks Zennie.
~Kid~

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 08:16 PM
You ARE my Buddha!!!!

See; how come everyone isn't as smart as you and me????
:bow You are my Buddha!!

~Kid~

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 09:18 PM
Zennie, if they...

...would just post their information,
which is obviously all about how BAD alcohol is for us,
I don't even mind.
I don't want to trash up an informational post with argument.
The research gets buried in this squabbling that they seem to thrive on.
When I post an article about anything (and certainly, mine are outnumbered 10/1)
I don't want their kindergarten whining and trash all over my post...
Let people read it or not, right?
If they are going to trash up my posts,
then I'm going to argue and inflame the little cry baby sides of themselves that they are exposing and SO easy to spank.
If I could post my article "Is there anything good about beer" and they would leave it alone..
then there it would sit; read or not read.
I promote nothing; I argue with no one..
I post the Modder view.
"We are GOING to drink, at least a little..here's what's good about that."
We are allowed to do that.

WIP, the epitome of all things Buddhist (NOT), comes in and starts trouble before ANYONE ELSE, every time.
So, no, Zennie... it doesn't begin with me.
When I first came to MWO, WIP was in the middle of a controversy I never got all the details on.
Now I'm beginning to see the wolf under the sheep's clothing...
The spiritual stuff is crap.
She's a playground bully,
a steal your lunch and push you to the ground bully.
If these people want to argue EVERY DAY... EVERY DAY.
I'm here.
~Kid Shelleen~

Mohun
March 10th, 2009, 09:20 PM
Kid Shelleen;568699 wrote: ...would just post their information,
which is obviously all about how BAD alcohol is for us,
I don't even mind.
I don't want to trash up an informational post with argument.
The research gets buried in this squabbling that they seem to thrive on.
When I post an article about anything (and certainly, mine are outnumbered 10/1)
I don't want their kindergarten whining and trash all over my post...
Let people read it or not, right?
If they are going to trash up my posts,
then I'm going to argue and inflame the little cry baby sides of themselves that they are exposing and SO easy to spank.
If I could post my article "Is there anything good about beer" and they would leave it alone..
then there it would sit; read or not read.
I promote nothing; I argue with no one..
I post the Modder view.
"We are GOING to drink, at least a little..here's what's good about that."
We are allowed to do that.

WIP, the epitome of all things Buddhist (NOT), comes in and starts trouble before ANYONE ELSE, every time.
So, no, Zennie... it doesn't begin with me.
When I first came to MWO, WIP was in the middle of a controversy I never got all the details on.
Now I'm beginning to see the wolf under the sheep's clothing...
The spiritual stuff is crap.
She's a playground bully,
a steal your lunch and push you to the ground bully.
If these people want to argue EVERY DAY... EVERY DAY.
I'm here.
~Kid Shelleen~
Wow. What an ego.

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 09:24 PM
Thank you...

Anything else?


Mohun;568702 wrote: Wow. What an ego.

Accountable for Me
March 10th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Oh dear. This is absolutely ridiculous. Really.

I think there is a wealth of information for both the modder and the Af'er. There shouldn't be such a divide between people who are moderating their drinking and those who are abstinent.

We all are striving towards the same goal and that is better health and quality of life.

It is a full moon I believe so everyone is going off of their rocker, me thinks. Also bear in mind that we all are alcoholics/problem drinkers and unlike the 'normal' person in life; we are sensitive people who need to learn a little bit more about compassion and understanding. Not to mention 'respect' for our fellow MWO'ers, modding or not.

We need to keep our eyes on the prize and just get on with it.

A Work in Progress
March 10th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Personal attacks are ugly, Kid, and they will win you no friends here. You have gotten a lot of support here (including from me, on several occasions) for the way you approach moderate drinking. About this other stuff, your threads about the "benefits of alcohol," you will find that some people disagree with you. Maybe you can learn to live with that... without going off on the deep end...

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 09:52 PM
You're right..

If I can post a simple article about the benefits of beer not have 15 or 20 AFers bury it in silly arguments, I'll be FINE..
They can continue to post
"THe Evils of Beer" on their thread and I won't interfere.
That's all I've EVER wanted!
:thanks:

Lila
March 10th, 2009, 10:13 PM
Is this a circular argument? :)

Kid Shelleen
March 10th, 2009, 10:15 PM
I'm sorry Zennie..

Because, really you're right..I'll step away.
The articles are there, if they get buried, I'll pull them up.
No more arguing...
Peace
Kid

DeeBee
March 12th, 2009, 05:09 AM
Take this OFF the boards and put it in a PM to those that you wish to address your issues with, please Kid.
I do not think it's appropriate to air our grieviences/issues with other members in "public".

Saint Jude
March 16th, 2009, 05:45 AM
:thanks: For more great moderation info Kid!

I've been a moderater since finding MWO...
Long before we had boards separating Mods & Abs...

I know RJ, struggled with this very dilemma. I can't imagine the strength & courage she must have ...
Can you even imagine the grief she must have been given & probably still is...for being open minded, and not buying into the whole "mainstream philosophy?"
:l

Geez Louise...:confused:

sunshine_gg
March 16th, 2009, 11:42 AM
At the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth (who am I kidding? I ain't that flexible anymore!)...

Reports of alcohol being beneficial have been around for a long time. And, I believe them to be true. NORMAL or moderate consumption. ONE glass a day kinda thing. Unfortunately, many of us can't do that. Not yet or not at all.

So, Kid, while I CAN understand some of your frustration with the majority of the board advocating complete abstinence, you need to keep in mind that many, MANY of us here at the very early stages of recovery (and long term goals which are probably not even fully thought through yet). How about limiting research or other articles promoting the benefits of alcohol to posts to the mod forum exclusively? At which point, there should be NO reprimand whatsoever from anyone.

Personally, I hope that I will be joining you in successful moderation eventually. Right now, however, a 'little' alcohol could send me spiraling out of control in no time and end up being anything but beneficial.

.

Saint Jude
March 16th, 2009, 02:35 PM
last I checked...
This is the RESEARCH section of the forum...

Shall we start burning books now too?:confused:

Why have a computer if you want to "play Ostrich?"

Wish I were as flexible as i used to be too! LOL

A Work in Progress
March 16th, 2009, 03:09 PM
last I checked...

This is (supposedly) a forum devoted to recovery FROM drinking problems... Not a forum for people who need to be encouraged to drink alcohol!

Why come to a "recovery" forum unless you need to drink LESS... instead of MORE? :confused:

But... oops, wait! We've already had this little discussion... haven't we?

Saint Jude
March 16th, 2009, 03:28 PM
!/2 full or 1/2 empty...

perspective,... use it, or loose it...

:welcome: One and ALL.

Peace out.

PS Check out the BOLD print in the original post...

Accountable for Me
March 16th, 2009, 03:50 PM
Accountable for Me;568713 wrote: I think there is a wealth of information for both the modder and the Af'er. There shouldn't be such a divide between people who are moderating their drinking and those who are abstinent.

We need to keep our eyes on the prize and just get on with it.
As I have said in my earlier post on this subject.... I took out of my last post what I think we need to refocus on.

The research section is just that..... research. Good, bad, whatever. Take what you want and leave the rest.

I remember when I first joined here; the modding folks had a thread going that was HILARIOUS! They called themselves the 'Muffin Tops'. Even us who are AF, participated on their threads and vice versa. There was NO tension, nothing. We respected each other's choices. We had a lot of fun; meanwhile receiveing tons of support from each other in our recoveries, and in our future planning.

The dynamics of this board has changed. And with more members, it should. But bottom line it barrels down to respect for one another. Sharing information. Supporting one another. There is NO right or wrong here. Whatever works for the individual is what should be supported.

Saint Jude
March 16th, 2009, 04:11 PM
:thanks: AFM
I remember those days as well...:h

sunshine_gg
March 16th, 2009, 05:18 PM
SJ... with all due respect... this IS a HELP forum - as in seeking help/control of drinking. Personally, I really don't care or mind a whole lot... a report that alcohol can be good for you (be it here, on TV or in some magazine) isn't going to make me crumble and pick up a drink. But.. must we really post it HERE? In a HELP forum? And, for that matter, the reports at the opening of this thread are hardly ground breaking research.. not exactly fresh off the press front page news.

Again... I think they have merit and wouldn't offend or bother anyone in the mods section.

And.. while you're asking... I have a computer primarily to work and feed my children :) Oh.. and.. did you say Ostrich??? I told ya I wasn't that flexible! :H

AFM, I agree that there really shouldn't be a division. This isn't about 2 camps.

Saint Jude
March 16th, 2009, 06:14 PM
This is the research section,... NOT the Modders section

We shouldn't be swept off in a little corner like lepers, because somebody else doesn't want to read something informative.

Sushine, I'm glad you & your kids are being fed...:)

Ps I love your jokes in the Laughing out loud section..(did you know RJ started that whole section way back when...because I was telling so many jokes in General D? When that's about all we had?)
Glad a lot of folks aren't too easily offended by humor or that wouldn't exist here...