Lusus under the influence

[Lusus Naturae]

Under the influence of baclofen, that is.

Hi everyone! :new:

Who (or what) am I?

I'm a 6' 170 lb. male who drinks. A lot. (IMO)

I've been drinking much more than I should for quite some time now, more than 15 years. For the last ten or so I've probably averaged between 7 and 14 drinks per evening, closer to the latter lately. I started out only in the evening, but for the past year or so have slipped into benders where daily intake is 20 or more per day. In the last month, I had one stretch of 10 days, with a 4 day break (where a break is defined as only drinking in the evening), followed by another 9 day bender. At this point, no matter how I try not to, any non work stretch becomes a bender, including weekends.

I've been intending to moderate for some time now, but no matter how determined I was, it just didn't work. I've never tried AA, there are things about their philosophy that just don't fit me. Never tried CBT (in fact, never been to a shrink). I've never discussed my drinking with anyone.

Stress, anxiety, insomnia, and the fear of dire withdrawal symptoms are all factors. I drink to sleep, which doesn't work all too well, since I wake up a few hours later, then drink again to get back to sleep. If I didn't, I'd obsess over whatever, and not sleep. I never thought I suffered from anxiety, but watching my mind lately, I've come to realize that indeed I do. The fear of withdrawal symptoms leads me to try to titrate down slowly, but I can never seem to keep to the scheduled amounts. And of course all of these play against each other.

The only times I've been af were visits to family, when I was staying with family. Titrating down before visits was quite a struggle.

The toll this is taking on my body and mind is becoming more evident every day, and I had to find some way to deal with this.

I've poked about MM (lurked on the boards there) for some time. Every time I found a drug mentioned I researched it, and for most, the results didn't sound very promising. Then I came across Naltrexone and TSM. This looked promising. I found a board with discussions about people's experiences with it (TSM that is), and thought I had found something really good. Granted it seemed to be taking some time for results, and the results were mixed, but it seemed better than anything else I had found. I tried to order from alldaychemist, but their site wouldn't accept my cc, and the only way it seemed I could order was to send them a check.

Before I could do that, though, I found another drug I had never heard of: baclofen. This looked even more promising. I devoured all threads I could find on this board about it (many, many, many thanks to all of you), and this seemed even more attractive.

I started ordering bac (you may have seen a thread I started about my research on that) a little less than two weeks ago. I received my first order three days ago. I'll be posting about my progress as I go along.

Again, I want to express my gratitude to everyone posting about their progress and experiences here. If it weren't for you, I wouldn't have pursued baclofen. I most likely wouldn't have found out about Dr. Ameisen.

At this point, after three days, I'm already experiencing some very good things with bac. I hope it lasts. Even if it doesn't, I'll be titrating up until craving is supressed (or I reach a point where it doesn't and I can't go any further).

So there you have it.

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

What the &*#$* is that avatar?

It's a fur bearing sardine.

Look up Lusus Naturae. You'll get the idea.

[cacky]

Lusus under the influence

Lus, you are in the right place we are a great group of people. just keep reading and posting. you will get your answers:welcome:

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

This is intended to be a brief summary of my progress, from receiving my first Baclofen tabs to now. We'll see how short I can keep it...

Day one (7/21/09):

I received my tabs 7/21, 2PM. Took 5 mg immediately. Took another 5 (all dosages will be in mg) at 3PM, another 5 at 4PM, another at 5:30, and the final 5 at 8:30PM. I drank a total of 8 oz of vodka interspersed with that. I felt a little somnolence, and increased effects of the AL. Sleep was weird. I woke up after about an hour, and was totally confused. I thought I was on vacation, then I thought it was the weekend, and only after a few minutes of confusion did I figure out tomorrow is a work day. I woke about once an hour, but got back to sleep.

Day two:

35 mg total. 5 drinks total. Still had the urge to drink, but the effects were magnified by the bac, and I drank more slowly. Much less than usual. Sleep was again punctuated with waking, but overall better with than without bac. I had a headache that began just before bedtime, and increased during the night. It turns out I can't blame that on the bac. I had a serious sunburn, and those always give me this kind of headache.

Day three:

50 mg, 2 beers. Not much somnolence, and increased relaxed attention. Not sure which is bac, and which is reduced al. Noticed some physical and psychological effects similar to hydergine. Weird. Sleep is again distirbed: 4 hours straight, then again with the one hour stints.

Day four:

60 mg, 4 drinks. Sleep was incredible. Dreams were incredible. 12 hrs sleep!

[bernard]

Lusus under the influence

Lusus,
...and? What happened after that? You left off at 7/25/09.

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

This is intended to be a brief summary of my progress, from receiving my first Baclofen tabs to now. We'll see how short I can keep it...

Day one (7/21/09):

I received my tabs 7/21, 2PM. Took 5 mg immediately. Took another 5 (all dosages will be in mg) at 3PM, another 5 at 4PM, another at 5:30, and the final 5 at 8:30PM. I drank a total of 8 oz of vodka interspersed with that. I felt a little somnolence, and increased effects of the AL. Sleep was weird. I woke up after about an hour, and was totally confused. I thought I was on vacation, then I thought it was the weekend, and only after a few minutes of confusion did I figure out tomorrow is a work day. I woke about once an hour, but got back to sleep.

Day two:

35 mg total. 5 drinks total. Still had the urge to drink, but the effects were magnified by the bac, and I drank more slowly. Much less than usual. Sleep was again punctuated with waking, but overall better with than without bac. I had a headache that began just before bedtime, and increased during the night. It turns out I can't blame that on the bac. I had a serious sunburn, and those always give me this kind of headache.

Day three:

50 mg, 2 beers. Not much somnolence, and increased relaxed attention. Not sure which is bac, and which is reduced al. Noticed some physical and psychological effects similar to hydergine. Weird. Sleep is again distirbed: 4 hours straight, then again with the one hour stints.

Day four:

60 mg, 4 drinks. Sleep was incredible. Dreams were incredible. 12 hrs sleep!

Day five:

70 mg, 3 beers.

Day six:

Slight fuzziness in the morning, but one cup of coffee remedied that.

100 mg, 2 beers.

From this point on, I'll just list the bac/day.

7: 140 mg
8: 80 mg
9: 90 mg
10: 110 mg
11: 130 mg
12: (8/1) 200 mg. AL free this day. Not such a good night.
13: 140 mg
14: 90 mg
15: 100 mg
16: 90 mg
17: 140 mg
18: 150 mg
19: 80 mg
20: 110 mg
21: 110 mg. AL free from here 'till now.
22: 130 mg
23: 140 mg
24: 120 mg
25: 150 mg
26: 140 mg
27: That would be today. Still AL free, no bac yet today.

Sorry about the excessive/anemic detail. I thought the first few days would be more interesting (excpet for the events surrounding day 12).

I'm sure you noticed the extreme titration rate, as well as the variation day to day. I'll post about that, how it worked, and the reasoning behind it elsewhere.

I've experienced some somnolence, especially at the higher intakes, but nothing all too bad. Other than that, and the initial minor (I think) sleep disturbances, there's been nothing that I can either attribute to bac alone, or is significant.

It's been an interesting ride. Up to day 20 I was still drinking. The initial numbers were quite low, surprisingly low for me. At that point I was thinking that if that were the extent of it, that would be enough. I was reaching what I considered to be my goal of moderation. Simply amazing.

AL intake went up from there, but not to anywhere near the levels just prior to bac. At the most, I'd have maybe six or seven drinks.

By day 21, it was clear I was just drinking out of habit, and to make sure I slept. Lack of sleep is just one source of anxiety for me, and leads me to do stupid things, like drink. It was one of the excuses I had for drinking. Bac both reduced that and other anxieties, and helped with the sleep. Two (of four or so) benefits of bac.

On day 20, I had run out of AL, and day 22 I couldn't be bothered to go to the store to get more. The desire just wasn't enough to make a 15 minute (total) trip.

That lack of desire continued, and I would purposely think of alcohol to try to spark some kind of desire. I did manage to do so a couple of times. One was after doing some yard work in the heat and sun, and I thought a nice cold lager would be nice. Though it was more of the taste and sensation I wanted, not the buzz. I had some ice water, and the thought soon passed. I had one other similar experience, and actually briefly thought of going to the store. That's as far as that thought went. It simply didn't persist.

Beyond that, my feelings surrounding thoughts of alchohol now seem like a lifetime removed from just a month ago. I simply don't care. I don't have any aversion, and if I had a nice cold beer I'd give it a try. I just don't have enough desire to make any effort to do so. I've been within steps of the stores a few times, but just didn't feel the need to go there.

It's been just a week of that, so I'm not declaring myself "cured", but at this point, I simply can't express the difference between now and a short time ago. The difference feels like years, not weeks. The positive changes that simply happened are too many to mention in this "brief" post.

My deepest thanks to all those who have posted their experiences with bac on these threads. It was through these threads that I decided to try bac. It would not have happened otherwise. At the rate I was going, I'd be doing the Sinclair naltrexone method and hoping I would be one of the lucky ones where it would take a few months, and if not, hoping for less than a year for success.

Ok, I think I've reached my brief limit. And yes, for me, that was brief.

.

[Cinders]

Lusus under the influence

Lusus,

The titration schedule is somewhat confusing. I can't wait to read the rationale.

Nonetheless, your success is nothing short of amazing.

I didn't have a few months or a year of Naltrexone to get well. I was on a downward spiral physically and mentally. Baclofen has given me a new lease on life and the ability to enjoy that lease.

It sounds like you are as happy with the results for yourself as I am with mine.

Good news!!

Cindi

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

Are you crazy?!? Why the weird titration "schedule"?

I had some time to think of how I would use baclofen from the time I first encountered mention of it, to to the time I had it in my hands. There was time spent researching it, reading the threads here, lurking, finally pulling the trigger and ordering, and of course the long wait for it to arrive.

In that time I had thought about the titration rates, schedules, dosing throughout the day, etc.

I'm not normally one who likes to follow instructions without understanding them, agreeing with the motivation, rationale, and whether it fits with my inclinations. Needless to say, I sometimes blaze my own trail, and sometimes foolishly.

I'll let you decide for yourself whether I'm a complete idiot in this case.

The regimented schedules suggested here seemed to be a good idea, if there were potential problems with titrating rapidly that couldn't be monitored and anticipated, and if there were a good reason to keep bac levels even throughout the day. Neither seemed valid assumptions to me.

The first, that rapid titration could cause problems, seems to be clearly supported by various people's experiences documented here. I'm not discounting those at all, and for those who experienced them, I'm deeply sorry. For myself, since the absorption time seemed relatively short, I thought I could monitor the effects in more or less real time, and adjust accordingly.

The second, that levels need to be kept even throughout the day, I found no reason for. To my thinking, it seemed to be counter productive. I need to be sharp at work, so early doses would cause problems. For most of the week, work takes up my days, and for the most part, I've managed to keep my work days al free. It's the evenings that are problematic (other than weekends and vacations). If I could ramp up in the evenings, I would keep sharp during the days, and have the benefits in the evenings, as well as ramping up to somnolence when it's needed, at bedtime. Somnolence upon waking could be a problem, and I'd have to adjust for that.

That's the third concern: the somnolence. Again, that would be a problem for me, and reading the posts while waiting for my bac, it seemed it was the most common side effect. I thought I would ramp up more quickly starting Friday eve, and start early on weekend mornings. That way I could (assuming any negative effects could be monitored and halted when noticed) get to a higher level on weekends, reduce intake during the week, and overall reach a higher level of tolerance faster without the associated somnolence.

The ramp ups, though, needed to be monitored. I figured I'd find out how that went once I got my bac. Once I received it, I started with 5 mg. I waited and watched. I watched the time and rate that the effects increased and leveled. I did the same with the next 5 mg, and the next... Over the next few days I became familiar with the effects and rates, and felt comfortable with increasing the rate.

Given all of that, perhaps you can see that I was constantly adjusting according to how I felt at any given moment. There are a lot of factors involved, and 10 mg this time probably won't do exactly the same thing as 10 mg two days ago. Certainly 10 mg now doesn't behave the same as 10 mg four hours ago. There are cycles, short term (each dose), longer term (the course of a day), and longer. As I watched, I became somewhat familiar with those as well, and could to some extent plan and adjust according to those observations.

Since I was adjusting according to the effects in this developing framework, not according to a schedule, the amounts I would take over any period of time, whether short (hours), longer (a day), or even longer would not be consistent from one period to the next.

This worked out very well for me personally. I wouldn't suggest it for anyone else. It probably was not a good idea, and I was simply fortunate that it worked for me.

It did work well for me, though. I think the results I outlined in my previous post show that. I've gained some sort of understanding of the effects of bac on my body at various intakes, rates, etc., and I've satisfied a bit of my curiosity. I think those are all good things. And I've been lucky enough to do this without significant negative consequences.

.

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

bernard;694790 wrote: Lusus,
...and? What happened after that? You left off at 7/25/09.

Sorry. Didn't realize that got posted. I made the mistake of hitting the browser's back button while writing the post. Fortunately I was able to continue...

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

I should also point out that, because of my titration "schedule", the bac in my bloodstream during the evenings is much higher than what you would gather just from the numbers alone, since on most days I would start in the afternoon, and stop just before bedtime.

.

[brightlite]

Lusus under the influence

Lusus, Great post. Very helpful information regarding your dosage schedule. I think that I am going to go light in the mornings and increase through the day with the biggest dose around the dinner hour. I'm at 40mg going to 50mg today. I felt very good, although sleepy yesterday. I didn't even want a drink so that was great. Hoping to be one that it works at a low dosage.

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

Bright,

I hope low dose works for you. There are many who are taking the even 3/4 per day dose schedule, with an occasional prn dose. I think I'm the exception with my weird schedule.

There are a lot more to learn from, question, and commiserate with using a more "conventional" schedule. If you go with something different, listen carefully to your body, and do lots of research.

I'm in no way medically or otherwise qualified to give advice or even serve as an example. I'm just a statistical outlier.

.

[brightlite]

Lusus under the influence

Lusus,

At this point, there aren't even Doctors that are qualified or even aware of baclofen's usage and dosage for Addiction/Alcoholism.

I understand and I will pay attention to my body and any adverse symptoms.

Congrats on your AF time and hope you will continue.

[Lusus Naturae]

Lusus under the influence

brightlite;695216 wrote: Congrats on your AF time and hope you will continue.

If everything continues to go as it is, that's simply a given.

It is strange, though. For years I had the goal of moderation. Being AL free didn't appeal to me. I suppose that's one more subtle (or not so) aspect of the chemically induced rearrangement of neurons. I really made no concious decision to become AL free, I just decided one day to see what would happen if I didn't go get AL. After that, I just didn't have the desire any longer. (There's another bit of info for you in your quest for data points, Zman)

.