craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

thanks fets for this nice charting software

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Today my is my 40th AF day in a row.:happy:

I have dosed down to 100mg last week, and it was really too fast, so I ended up dosing up again to 187.5mg.

This time I have a very good plan on how to reduce the dose. The problem is that Baclofen seems to have 2 effects. One is the instant effect about 2-3 hours after taking it, and the other is the long term effect that shows within 24-36 hours after taking it. ("add up effect")

So although Bupropion is known to cause on taking Psychological disorder my brain is probably used to this disorder and reacted in a very heavy way on withdrawal!

So when I dosed down too fast I did not notice I crossed the border, and then on upping it, I upped it too fast, as I simply wanted to get back to normal again. Best is to have it done totally constant!

Idea is to reduce by 12.5mg every 4 days.

22.02.2010 187.5 (1 1/2 25mg)
23.02.2010 187.5
24.02.2010 175
25.02.2010 175 (1x25mg, 1x10mg)
26.02.2010 175
27.02.2010 175
28.02.2010 162.5
28.02.2010 162.5
01.03.2010 162.5 (1x25mg, 3/4x 10mg)
02.03.2010 162.5
03.03.2010 162.5
04.03.2010 150
05.03.2010 150 (1x25mg, 1/2x 10mg)
06.03.2010 150
07.03.2010 150
08.03.2010 137.5 (1x25mg, 1/4x 10mg)
09.03.2010 137.5 set alarm to avoid missing the 5th dose!
10.03.2010 137.5
11.03.2010 137.5
12.03.2010 125
13.03.2010 125 (1x25mg)
14.03.2010 125
15.03.2010 125
16.03.2010 112.5
17.03.2010 112.5 (2 1/4 x 10mg)
18.03.2010 112.5
19.03.2010 112.5
20.03.2010 100
21.03.2010 100 (2x10mg)
22.03.2010 100
23.03.2010 100
24.03.2010 93.75
25.03.2010 93.75 (3/4 25mg)
26.03.2010 93.75
27.03.2010 93.75

around 125mg I might consider removing one of my doses of currently 5 a day to 4. As I get up at 2-4am to take my 5th dose - as the high doses of Baclofen have caused an insomnia effect. Now if I reduce the dose this insomnia effect is gone and I would miss the dose during the night. That caused me last week quite some problems, as without noticing it I jumped from 150mg a day to 100mg (normal deduction PLUS missing a dose). That was too much, and had me slap back to even higher ... 187.5mg

I am sure that this time it will work out better. Baclofen must be taken constant to have its best effect.

My panic attacks are a lot better. I have added Coffeine again, and it did not really cause an alteration - I did not do much sports and it did not come again.
The only clue I have right now is that Bupropion needs about 1 week to "kick in" - and that was about the time it took to have this resolved. For now I will stay on 450mg a day until I am down on Baclofen to around 100mg and see how it goes.

I never want to change dose of more than one medicine at a time anymore. It is so hard to know what caused this anxiety panic attacks!

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

i have switched to taking 4 doses instead of 5. Would I not have done this I would probably miss my 5th dose and get totally out of balance.

I am now at 160mg/day Baclofen. All looks perfect so far.

Have been at a dinner with friends today. People drank alcohol, and first it annoyed me a bit, that I am not drinking ,but as time passed I see how they change on the alcohol intake, and they just became very annoying to me - taking stupid things, doing strange movements with their hands in their hand etc etc.

I am so happy that I am not drinking anymore. Thank you Baclofen - thank you so much!

43 days sober now. :happy:

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

I am down to 150mg Baclofen / day. Taking it into baby steps.

Always 4 days on a dose, and then reducing - mostly by only 10mg.

I have reduced Bupropion again to 300mg from 450mg. This was more unwillingly. Because of the pattern I have with taken it, I was unable to take it during the weekend as I was sleeping long - so took only 2 pills instead of 3.

Figured I might as well stay with the 2 pills/day and hoping that my panic attacks will not come back. Planing to stay on 2 until my reduction of dose with Baclofen is done. I want to see how low I can get.

Taking for now L-Theanine every late evening 200mg - just taking it one time a day. Once I take it my thoughts start to clear into positive thinking. Then the next day I can feel that my thoughts get worse again, and then at night I take it again. For now I like the contrast - seeing that it could be worse and getting the relieve. Maybe my brain figures out the pattern and fixes itself!!!

my 48 AF day :happy:

Feeling good so far. I am detaching myself more and more from alcohol - also psychological wise. Only negative thing, that might be caused by L-Theanine is that I seem to get positive thoughts about Alcohol too - like ... one glass would not hurt. That was the last day, maybe some odd dream. Today feels better.

No craving, having more energy, sleeping like a baby. Still fighting with the problems of taking an antibiotic some weeks back. After fighting with a cold, I am now fighting with my intestinal - seems the antibiotic has killed a lot of good bacteria and I would have every day pain in the lower part of my belly. It seems to improve, had to take lots of Simeticon to get rid of the gases - for now it seems I can eliminate them by myself again. Antibiotics really suck. Will keep on having problems with my body at least for the next 2-3 months because of that "helpful" medicine.

Was at a party the other day, and lots of people drinking, and I wanted to get away from these people. After the dinner they want to go into the disco and drink more - I told them not with me. I really do not care what they want to do with their own lives. But I do not want to sit drinking my coca cola in a room where I can not talk with lots of smoke. I really hate the smell of smoke on my clothes now. And I start to get more intolerant to people drinking.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Yesterday my first day with craving. On Wednesday I changed to 150mg and on the 3rd day - yesterday of the lower dose my craving started.

That re-assures me that the dose lower plan of 10mg every 5th day is correct.

For now I have changed the dosing to

11pm 37.5
9am 25
2pm 50
8pm 37.5

so I am going to take more at 2pm in order to combat my craving more.

I almost forgot how bad it feels to have craving. I was sitting there and had to actively fight myself to not take a drink. And that after 50 AF days !!!

I want to get off Bupropion - as it messes up my brain too much.

Bupropion is the main cause of my alcoholism and once I have removed it, my body will be able to handle alcohol like it always did - making me kiss the toilet.

I will keep on varying my Baclofen dose with the hope that I can find a good lower dose that will let me stay sober without craving.

After I am off Bupropion and any other anti depressive that my doctor will most likely give me, I am planing to start a self try.

First I have to be off anti depressives at least 1-2 months.

Then I want to see in how far I can have my brain rewired. Bupropion was the only reason I could have ever drunk that much. Without Bupropion I would puke up on higher intake of alcohol, and the euphoric feeling would not have existed.

I have the theory that if I drink again without Bupropion that my brain will relearn its original setting. Of course using Naltrexone.

This is for now very much in the future. The last time I changed my dose for Bupropion from 2-3 pills a day to 1 pill a day I ended up with having scary panic/anxiety attacks, that feels like having a life threatening moment. It is very scary, and I definitely do not want to repeat that experience.
Only by adding up Bupropion to 3 pills a day I was able to get a hold of the panic/anxiety attacks within a week - the time Bupropion takes to kick in.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

I was today at the family doctor trying to find a solution for my Bupropion Problem.

I am getting more and more effected by Bupropion now that I am not drinking alcohol anymore. Retrospective I think that this was the main reason why I was drinking at all - to fight the psychosis that Bupropion is giving me.

When I try to withdraw from Bupropion I had each day scary panic/anxiety attacks, and meanwhile I am on Bupropion I keep on having bad thoughts. These include for example thought about hurting myself. I can't live with it, but also not without it !!!!

The family doctor send me to the psychiatrist - to whom I have to go now. Family doctor suggested that most likely the solution to my problem will be switching me piece by piece to a different medication that does not have the negative side effects that are known for Bupropion. Most likely to first get my panic/anxiety attacks under control.

I hope to soon receive an appointment with the psychiatrist. Really looking forward to get off Bupropion.

Family doctor suggested not to re-try by myself getting off Bupropion.

Pray for me that the psychiatrist does not prescribe me benzos. I am totally unwilling to take that.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Today I was at the psychiatrist - for the first time in my life. Due to problems with self-hurting thoughts/bad thoughts and my panic/anxiety that are all side effects of Bupropion!!!

So I went to the psychiatrist to get me off Bupropion - and I also told him the story about alcohol and Baclofen, and he did not buy it at all. He was asking how much I take, and I told him 130mg - then he said the suggested max. dose is 80mg - and I should reduce it, then I said there are studies of people taking it at home with up to 300mg over years without problems, and he agreed to have heard the same.

He was looking up several medications he can give me in order to help my problems, and one of the things he suggested was benzodiazepine - is it just a paranoia of me or does everyone want you to take benzo??? I have 3 (!) contraindications AGAINST Benzo
1) Alcohol history
2) Medicine abuse
3) Baclofen
and still he wanted to give it to me!!!

After I told him I am too scared I will get addicted to it, he dropped it. _HE_ should be the one telling me that - and not me!!

I was prescribed this :
-Venlafaxin (Antidepressiva)
-Dekakine (Antiepileptika - he says it helps with my OCD - he said that a good bunch of my problems comes from being a perfectionist).
-Mianserin (Antidepressiva)

He even prescribed me Lioresal in the end - just 4x25mg (100mg) - but better than nothing. I am now at 130mg - so not that far away, and I guess once that is done, he would love to see me around 70mg to safely prescribe it. But I do not care - I will take as much as needed - and I will try to lower my Baclofen intake slowly and moderately. If I see I can not get down more, then I can not get down more, and I have to buy the rest of the medicaments myself - which I anyways do already in the case of Baclofen.

Funny thing is - he wanted to take me off Baclofen - and I told him - listen - if you take me off Baclofen, I will drink again, I can guarantuee you that. And he is like ... look at all the nice medicine I wrote for you, with that you will not have any cravings. Then I said to him ... if that would work, then rehab would be empty. That was when he got angry - I must have hit a nerve that he has nothing against Alcohol.
He told me the best would be to put me into a rehab to de-tox me to get me off Bupropion and Baclofen and having me under control 24x7 hours to ensure that I am not going to hurt myself - for 7-10 days. I denied that threatment.

I was absolutely right not talking to doctors before about alcohol. They would have put me into a detox and would have made it even worse.

So far so good. I see I still have to take care of myself, and use my own brain. Beside that I hope the medicine will work and help me get off Bupropion.

I already stopped Bupropion today cold turkey - and instantly started with the new medicine as listed above.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

I am 60 days AF now :wd:

Feeling good about that.

Have started withdrawal of Bupropion, but I have several problems now.

Last time I had withdrawal of Bupropion I had panic/anxiety attacks - so my psychiatrist prescribed me other Antridepressiva.

I have quit Bupropion on Friday and started to take the other medicaments. Then on Sunday I could not piss anymore - so I stopped the medicaments, and only sticked with Baclofen. By now I can still not piss very often for as much as 16 hours (!). Usually between 8pm to 12am.

As the other medicaments are out of my body, and even increasing the dose of Baclofen during the morning did not do a lot of help to this problem, I am pretty sure that Bupropion withdrawal has caused this problem now.

Will find out more today at my psychiatrist.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

not much new here.

Taking 75mg Baclofen per day - 25mg in the morning, 25mg lunch time, 25mg at night - just like my narrow viewed psychiatrist likes it to have.
For now I am doing ok. Had some strange thoughts of alcohol which suggest the dose is quite low for me. In particular I feel like I would like to have a beer or a glass of a wine or whisky. No carving really, just the desire to do it.
Will for now stick with the 75mg and see where it leads me to. Not looking forward to decrease any further for now.

Not taking any antidepressives anymore. No other medicaments on my list anymore - which is quite amazing. Only taking Baclofen (yes!)

Still having some issues with eating, I think in general I am eating 2 times as much - sometimes maybe 3 times as much. Trying to compensate with eating healthy (salads) and doing sports. I hope my body soon adjusts to this situation.

Just updated my chart_unit excel file and it is quite incredible to see the graphic ... a big fall down, and a big fat line at 0 ...

today is my 68th AF day in a row.

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

was at the psychiatrist, he wanted to prescribe me topamax for my eating disorder that I have now after the stopping with anti depressives.

I have refused taking Topamax, and will not return seeing my psychiatrist.

L-Glutamine has proven itself today EXTREMELY useful to fight my excessive eating. I think the trick with it is to take it especially on an empty stomach, that is when it appears to work best.

L-Theanine is just incredible. Although I am off all Anti depressives and only taking Baclofen now, I am feeling totally great, and I think a reason for that is L-Theanine. I take 4x200mg (breakfast, lunch, dinner, before sleeping) and doing wonderful. I can feel it working, and I feel totally relaxed and have mainly positive thoughts. Although some of this thoughts might be positive to alcohol, but I can handle it for now.

25 (9:00)
25 (15:15)
25 (19:00)

75mg Baclofen. No craving. just positive thoughts to alcohol ("why not have a glass of wine") - but I can handle that.

Tomorrow I will have dinner with an alcoholic friend of mine. I am thinking if I shall take an additional Baclofen at all. I see others drinking, or I drink myself an alcoholic free beer and there is no craving that happens. I think I will try and watch her drinking tomorrow with simply staying at my 75mg/day Baclofen, and simply see what happens.

I think Baclofen has helped me extremely into recovering from my alcohol past. It will still take a good amount of effort and time to be totally like I was before. But I see the biggest major steps have been taken already.

I have only been drinking excessively for 2 years. My hope is that I can reduce Baclofen more and by next year after being a significant time without anti depressives to be able to drink again without problems. I have respect for alcohol, but no fear anymore. Should I drink a glass of wine and I see I can not stop anymore, I take a sleep pill and some extra Baclofen, but myself into bed and consider it as failed. It will not have me crash like an AA that takes a sip of alcohol.

A major point about drinking again is respecting limits. For the beginning a limit of 1 drink, 2 nights a week sound reasonable. If I see I can not stay with 1 drink only, then it means my craving is back, and that means I am still the old alcoholic guy that I was in 2009 - but I have good hopes that my brain forgives me some things :H

70 AF days :h

[tm1210]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

Hi,
I hear some people saying about taking 250mg of Baclofen to defeat cravings. The cheapest I can find it for is ?15 for 100 10m pills, which seems a lot of money to me?

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

tm1210;832913 wrote: I hear some people saying about taking 250mg of Baclofen to defeat cravings. The cheapest I can find it for is ?15 for 100 10m pills, which seems a lot of money to me?

I pay for 30x25mg 4.78 EUR (4.24 GBP), but I have seen in Germany it costs like double.

I am not very familiar with the 10mg pills. If you take 250mg you would take 10x25mg a day, and not 25x10mg ... if possible of course.

So 250mg a day would cost me 1.40 GBP per day. The booze that I drank per day was costing me significantly more (as I was not going with the cheap stuff neither).

I do not think that investing 1.40 GBP per day instead of drinking is too much. It is actually cheaper if you calculate it

There are several places where you can order, on this board there are several suggestions on where to order best Baclofen.

Have you ever calculated how much the alcohol costs you that you drink each day?

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

65mg Baclofen
6g L-Glutamine
800mg L-Theanine

No craving, and still reducing Baclofen very slowly. Doing fantastically good. No anxiety, no reasons to go to the doctor, relaxed and in good mood.

I am happy to be off alcohol, bupropion (and all other AD medicine), pseudoephedrine and omeprazol. You medicines have never been my friends!!

Going swimming almost all days, I have my food intake under control using L-Glutamine, although I am still trying to optimize it further :H

Without Baclofen this would have never been possible!!!

80 AF days, 17 ADF (antidepressive free) days

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

62.5mg Baclofen
8g L-Glutamine
800mg L-Theanine

Feeling great. Relaxed, no anxiety, lots of good mood. Happy to be off alcohol.
Will continue to reduce Baclofen very slowly further. And will protocol the changes. For now not much of change. Only thing I noticed is that I can get cramps again. Before on Baclofen high dose I never had any cramps! But nothing to worry, I will stick with my reduction plan based on how I feel.


87 AF days, 24 ADF days

[craving]

craving Nal start 23. Apr 2009 - Bac start 08. Jan 2010

celebrating today 90 AF days:happy:

everything is working out great for me.

Baclofen has given me back my life.
My business and my work results have done an incredible jump upwards. I feel in general very quite and relaxed. I am not a work-aholic anymore neither. Just doing my work, and trying to have also free time and spend it with my girlfriend.

Baclofen has saved my live!

For now taking per day :
62.5mg Baclofen
8-12g L-Glutamine
800mg L-Theanine