WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[one2many]

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I do NOT mean to come across as holier than thou or mean spirited. But I do "say it like it is!, My pity has no value to ANYONE, least of all anyone struggling with an addiction..

[NoraC]

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I do understand what you are saying. But, I have struggled for a long time. The support of the people here during my 'failures' kept me trying.
After reading a thread like this months ago, I almost left this site. I felt like I didn't belong because I couldn't get sober. I received a very loving PM from JC that saved me. And, I kept trying. I hope that other people that are still trying to FIND THEIR WAY OUT will not give up. It took me a long time and I can't say that I have truly FOUND MY WAY OUT yet. But, I have 6 weeks AF. A first in years. That is because of the loving support of the people on this forum.

[one2many]

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You Didn't leave tho Nora did you? But you DID find what works for you, you KEPT trying and you found the Antabuse worked.Good for you and WELL done on 6 weeks sober, that is fantastic!

[Tipplerette]

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I came on today to start a thread to say that I was hoping to stay AF free for 30 days and I have attempted this numerous times before with no success. This thread makes me feel a little insecure about the possibility of posting my 'real' ups and downs with my AF attempt. Hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised (as I always am) if and when my struggles to stop are interrupted by temporary failure. I WANT the encouragement but not to hear that it's DANDY and FINE that I fell back a few steps. There is a way of phrasing things that really make a huge difference to the person reaching out for support. It's NOT OK to drink when you are determined to give it a rest or stop completely but the gang here so far has told me that in an encouraging way and that's the way I function at my best... I don't do well with criticism... I also have problems spelling critisicm... where is the spell check when you need it.

[techie]

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one2many;995672 wrote: I do NOT mean to come across as holier than thou or mean spirited. But I do "say it like it is!, My pity has no value to ANYONE, least of all anyone struggling with an addiction..

I don't think you did. Neither were you condescending or pejorative. I do at times feel a level of frustration with some folks commitment. I also recognize that as with any disease there is no "one size fits all" treatment modality. MWO does not work for everyone. Sobriety is attained by those that really want it. I try and tread carefully with individuals struggling with this disease. I use my journey and experience as a baseline. So I share feelings, give advice, and provide support to those based on the level of trust built through our interactions. I have provided some rather harsh feedback to some via PM. Often with a good result. For those that often slip that I don't have that bond with, I tend to support the bad behavior time and time again for fear of offending.

GREAT thread!

[TrappedDad]

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Well I have been on this site for about 3 weeks now. I have been taking the suppliments and the Topomax for 2 weeks, but i am still drinking. I guess I am one of the ones you all are talking about here. Time to either sh*t or get off the pot hey? I just can't find the strength to make it past one day.

[one2many]

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TD, you are only here 3 weeks, you are doing all you can and finding your feet, you have still to explore the tools that are available to you.....I was not sober when I was here 3 weeks either...

I am talking about the people who are here a MUCH longer time who continuously decide to drink, time and time again, have no plan for their sobriety and lap up the enabling that is dished out.

[Popeye]

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Great posts here and I know what you meant Oney and good on you for saying how you feel.
I messed about here for a long time before someone gave me the same sort of hard talking to and that produced my first really decent AF period and even then I was back drinking eventually.
It does feel that some people just want company or at least the ability to voice themselves in front of people who know what they're going through, but can't or won't commit entirely to sorting themselves out, whether that be through moderation or abstinence, and that's fine if it's any help for them at all. It's not going to work for everyone.
I've never been one for confrontation and am uncomfortable voicing even the obvious if there's a slight chance that it might cause offence, but there are many times when I wish I'd have said something worth listening to instead of saying nothing.
Also, I wouldn't like anyone to feel turned away, embarressed or intimidated into not posting their 'slips' (don't like that term either) if they think they might get a lecture when they do, but we're all here to add to the battery of weapons that might beat this thing and I welcome debates like this one.

[fighting back]

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As a relative newbie I thought I'd throw in my tuppenceworth. The OP's frustrations are understandable, and I don't think any of the opinions voiced here would stop people from posting....having said that I am only on Day 9 and had a major wobble last night, if I had given in and read this with a hangover I don't know how it would have made me feel.

One thing I will say is this. If I had slipped yesterday the last thing I would need is being hugged and told it was okay. It's not okay. And my feeling is that to be told it is is not constructive. What IS constructive is honest advice and support, a lot of which you all give freely here.

Maybe if I had taken a drink last night my self pitying alky self wouldn't like some of the comments here, but my sober self can see the wisdom of it. That's all.

[KateH1]

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mama bear;995656 wrote: I agree with these comments, and I have been feed a spoonful of tough love a few times myself. But I do think it's important to support people with love and compassion. Sometimes it feels like those of you that have acheived long term sobriety come across mean-spirited holier than thou, and suffering people have left because of that.

I find this post to be judgmental and unkind and unloving. We all have a right to our opinions and also to express our thoughts and opinions "Without Judgement and Wrong Assumptions" such as those above!

Thank you Oney for posting such an honest and thought provoking thread. If "Love" and "Sweet Talk" could snap us out of this horrible disease, there would be little need for rehabs. The fact is, alcoholics do not want to hear the truth, we fight to keep our right to drink and one o the things we absolutely must do if we have any hope of long term sobriety is to be willing to be brutally honest with ourselves, assume personal responsibility and to stop judging and assuming that recovery was somehow easy for those that have walked through the fire before us and that their sharing their experience and messages of honest hope is somehow boastful.

[havefaith]

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Oney....
I agree with you 100%
Giving up alcohol is a choice, and it is a very difficult one to make!
When I first joined this website, I got a ton of support from people who were really serious about sobriety. And month's went on I started to realize, just like in AA, You've Got your whiner's, and you've
got your people that are Dead serious about this addiction!(you can usually pic them out)
Now I'm not saying that people don't slip up- But when you see the same people over & over again, it really get's quite monotonous! This program is supposed to be about Honesty- So Honestly People Do You Want to Quit or Not?Now I know Alot of people are going to say that we should keep our opinions to ourselves, but these are either the people that don't have the strength to speak up, or they are the one's that continue drinking.

So thank you Oney, this was much needed.......

[mario]

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one2many;995556 wrote: Lately, I have found myself increasingly frustrated with all the "slips" that are posted day after day here on the boards.
They are usually from the same people who slip it in to conversation.."oh and by the way, I had a drink last night but back on the wagon now"
This usually gets a response like "oh don't worry, you are going thru such a lot and you only drank such and such amount..it's ok, there there, kisses for you" blah blah blah,
Then 2 days later the SAME people come back and say the SAME thing again and get the SAME response.

I know giving up drinking is hard..I know that, I have done it, I know that not everyone gets it first time, I didn't either but I have to ask if certain people are even trying???
There are those on here who give it their all.....try everything available to them, they give it 100%, they might not make it but they learn from their mistakes and make sure that particular trigger does not get them again. They use their tools, they post that they feel like taking a drink and get support, they WANT to stop drinking.

Then you have the Half Hearters...the ones who KNOW they drink too much, who harp on and on about how it is destroying their lives...moan, winge and cry about how SHITE their lives are and do not take ANY steps to seriously make an effort.

You will get some to try to "show" they are trying by taking meds etc but then plan to fail by stopping taking it or worse drinking while on it. The ones who will post drunk and then come back and say sorry for others to say "awhh don't worry, it's ok!. it's NOT ok.....everyone has posted drunk at some time or other but it's the ones who REPEATEDLY do it and can be obnoxious to boot.

Some threads on here, I honestly wonder if ANYONE is trying to get sober...seems to be just a collection of poor me stories and drinking and people saying "awhh you drank?? awhh thats ok, not to worry"

Call it tough love, call it what you like but it's time to wake up and smell the coffee...you have to WORK at sobriety, you have to do ANYTHING to get it and most of all you have to WANT it...

Otherwise you are going to go around in circles, looking for band aids from your friends on here, round and round and round....and getting nowhere.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. . Albert Einstein

I am sorry for the rant but it really has been on my mind for the past long while so I had to say something..

Great post one2many and i get what your saying, nothing changes if nothing changes.

[stirly-girly]

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[quote]fighting back;995756 wrote: As a relative newbie I thought I'd throw in my tuppenceworth. The OP's frustrations are understandable, and I don't think any of the opinions voiced here would stop people from posting....having said that I am only on Day 9 and had a major wobble last night, if I had given in and read this with a hangover I don't know how it would have made me feel.

One thing I will say is this. If I had slipped yesterday the last thing I would need is being hugged and told it was okay. It's not okay. And my feeling is that to be told it is is not constructive. What IS constructive is honest advice and support, a lot of which you all give freely here.

Maybe if I had taken a drink last night my self pitying alky self wouldn't like some of the comments here, but my sober self can see the wisdom of it. That's all.FightingBack - I liked your last comment and that's why I highlighted it. Especially the "self-pitying alky self" part. How often THAT self wakes up hand-in-hand with a hangover and then later on in the day tries to convince you to do it all over again.
Congratulations for being on Day 9 and good luck in stringing many more AF days together.

KateH1;995762 wrote:

I agree with these comments, and I have been feed a spoonful of tough love a few times myself. But I do think it's important to support people with love and compassion. Sometimes it feels like those of you that have acheived long term sobriety come across mean-spirited holier than thou, and suffering people have left because of that.

I find this post to be judgmental and unkind and unloving. We all have a right to our opinions and also to express our thoughts and opinions "Without Judgement and Wrong Assumptions" such as those above!

Kate, I've cut your post into two pieces because I wanted to add that I agree with what you said above. I have read many, many posts here and usually re-read them to make sure I understand what the poster is saying. I can honestly say that I can't remember any person who has long-term sobriety replying to another member's post about their relapse with anything more than well-meaning advice and honesty about what it takes to stay sober. Certainly no "holier than thou" or mean-spirited" posts have come to my attention. If there have been posts of that nature that I didn't see, perhaps someone is willing to go back and find them and quote them here.
And as for "suffering" members leaving because of some post they didn't like, maybe they were just trying to find an excuse to leave because they weren't strong enough to face the truth. It takes honesty, hard work and commitment to stay AF. You have to rethink your attitude towards AL and pull out every bit of ammunition you've got to fight him. No one said it would be easy. They just said it could be done.

And another thing and this is, of course, my opinion and others have the right to disagree with it and I am not referring to anyone in particular with what I'm saying. It annoys me when people refer to giving in to their cravings or temptations as a "slip". In most cases it wasn't. In almost all cases, it was a pre-meditated decision, mulled over and thought about for many hours, maybe even from the day before. And even after we stopped by and bought a bottle or our partner got back from work with a bottle or company showed up with a bottle or two, the decision to take that drink is solely ours. No one forces us to lift the glass or bottle to our lips. It's us that does it. It was a decision we made all by ourselves and carried out.
KateH1;995762 wrote: Thank you Oney for posting such an honest and thought provoking thread. If "Love" and "Sweet Talk" could snap us out of this horrible disease, there would be little need for rehabs. The fact is, alcoholics do not want to hear the truth, we fight to keep our right to drink and one o the things we absolutely must do if we have any hope of long term sobriety is to be willing to be brutally hones with ourselves, assume personal responsibility and to stop judging and assuming that recovery was somehow easy for those that have walked through the fire before us and that their sharing their experience and messages of honest hope is somehow boastful..
The part about fighting for our right to drink is hitting the nail on the head. That's why I said earlier we have to change the way we think about drinking and about AL.
And as you said, recovery is never easy. It's a long, hard battle but it can be done if we are willing to be as tough as we think others are being on us when they post good, strong-spoken advice on how to win this battle. Give me a kick in the butt any day. Pats on the head I got from my Mom when I was a kid. I outgrew them years ago.

[startingover]

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Superb post Oney.
I work with addicts and people with mental health problems. The very worst thing we can do is "buy into" their suffering. That doesnt mean no compassion as you've said. But it does mean hitting the reality button with them and not placating people when things go wrong.

[mama bear]

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yep that's me for sure...unkind and unloving.....
point made
I am done as I have other things to do