Fate vs Free Will

[AAthlete]

Fate vs Free Will

Magic, I agree with a lot of what you listed in your post.

Much like you, I have told myself so many times that this is going to be my last time drinking, that I am only going to have a couple and then I am done, and then proceed to get so drunk I can't see straight. Once that first drink passes my lips, who knows where or when it is going to stop - free will simply does not cut it for me.

Everyone has their own opinions of what works and what does not work. I can tell you that, only being three months into AA, I already know a peace and serenity that I haven't had in a long, long time. There is a HUGE difference between using free will to stop drinking (but being on edge and struggling every day to stay sober), and simply not wanting a drink. I've got a friend who puts it as such: "What have you got to lose? Try it and if it doesn't work, we'll gladly refund your misery!"

I made a decision to seek out a spiritual solution, and it had worked for me - I cannot begin to describe how good my life is right now. I also still love logging on here and reading all the wonderful posts - but that is the great thing about MWO, AA, or any other program. You take the pieces that work for you - my way is simply that - and I cannot judge nor think I am better or worse than anyone else working their program.

God bless everyone!

[Flip]

Fate vs Free Will

Magic and AA both said the same thing - that once you put the first drink to your lips you have no control. Neither do I, so don't think I'm talking through my hat!

The point is, you have to really not want to put the first drink to your lips. You have to do absolutely everything you possibly can to prevent it. You may (and I certainly have) fail occassionally, but eventually, if you take control, stop drinking.

It's a bit like Luvuall said about the one kid that makes it - they really really really wanted out of poverty. We have to really really really want to stop drinking. REALLY. We are not powerless.

Ive been sober 7 months today by doing EVERYTHING I CAN to stay that way. No higher power, no god, no fate or destiny. I did it, and I'm damn well going to take credit for it.

THe only fate which exists is that the choices we make are determined by our birth, our country, social standing etc etc etc....

You can't tell me that of the billions of people in the world there is someone/thing quietly thinking about how each and every life should turn out - what a crock.

[Pisces]

Fate vs Free Will

Hi,

Totally agree,

But I have a problem with my feelings, and emotions.

Trying hard to tell, myself, happiness and joy, it's working better, but somestimes I get unstuck, and just want to numb.

I hope you understand this too.

Love Jas xxx

[Flip]

Fate vs Free Will

Jas, just keep working on it darling. You will make it through somehow.

PM if you want to chat Aussie time ok?

[Guest]

Fate vs Free Will

Would like to think my free-will can override my fate, but this could be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, as free-will wins the battle when I`m in `tough cookie mode`, but fate triumphs whenever I feel weak..............

So, my answer to the original question would have to be..........DUNNO!!! lol

Starlight Impress

[louise]

Fate vs Free Will

Morrison, Where are you? There is good discussion here about our power over drinking. But I suspect you were thinking in much broader terms and as you have not checked back in to the thread you started I'm wondering if the posse needs to be sent again.

[magic]

Fate vs Free Will

Congratulations Flip!

On seven months of sobriety! That is a awesome acheivement!

Spirituality is a very personal thing. It is not necessarily about a "being" deciding the destiny/ fate of everyone on earth... CAUTION Religion follows.......

and if you are not a Child of God you will go to Hell.
Or if you blow up the terminal in Glasgow 17 virgins will meet you in Heaven. Sorry those were negaive examples. If you follow the Commandments you will go to Heaven. I am not bashing any religion here, these are off the top of my head.

I am a Christian. But I don't believe that my "higher power" is God.

AA teaches to "trust the process". It also teaches to surrender your will to your "higher power". I did no such thing. I just came to believe that I could not quit drinking by sheer will power alone.

There are many things about AA that I didn't like. One was that I was made to feel that I had to make amends to people that had been overtly cruel/abusive to me.

I am certainly NOT an advocate for AA (but I do suggest it), but anyone can find their "higher power" and then be open to the miracles that will come their way.

Again congratulations on sevens months, way to go!!!!!!!

magic xx :schmokin:

[Flip]

Fate vs Free Will

Trust me Magic, if I could believe in a Higher Power, I would. I think that having it would be very comforting. BUT, I don't and I take comfort in my own strength and determination, and help from others. It's not Will power that stops me drinking, it's logic and support - from many many quarters.

And I certainly don't believe that you should have made amends to those who have hurt you - it is up to them to do that to you! Obviously they are not working the program!

Even without a higher power, I have 'miracles' in my life every day - religion doesn't have a monopoly on 'miracles' lol

Keep it up Magic - I love this debate!!

[louise]

Fate vs Free Will

Ok Morrison, I'm back. No camper yet but I went to the gym and I read somewhere exercise builds new brain cells. So far the answer I like best is Rachel's. She is one smart lady and when she gets out of rehab she is really going to wow us all. Fate deals the hand and then we have total free will to make the choices. I think this comes closest to Victor Frankel. But this doesn't totally explain things. Sometimes we make choices that are bad and something good happens for someone else. For example, someone gets drunk and starts a thread and someone else responds. Another person pms that person and they become friends. But the person who started the thread feels terrible for posting drunk. How do we explain all these complexities. But for me it fits if we just look at ourselves. I'm still worried that you have not checked back. Where are you? I'm going to get Barbie to organize the posse. And then next week or the week after I'm going to get the camper (honest) and go to the woods. You can come too Kate. But no swearing. I want some peace. We can sit on rocks (sans Voddy and Jim).

[xtexan]

Fate vs Free Will

I won't go into the fate/free will thing, but consider this.

There is a moment for people like me. It is that "first drink" moment.

I would be sober, and I, not anyone else would say, "Gulp it down Neil, and all will be OK"

In the middle of a binge, I would sometime revel in my drunkeness, and proclaim, "I feel great, because I feel nothing!"

So there is that moment where we DO have the power over alcohol in my mind. You can look at every which way, and it gets down to a micro-second switch. On or off I am. Either I take that first drink, or I don't.

After the first, I am lost, and I have finally accepted, with great release of pain and misery, that the first is E Pluribus Unum. One of many.

Even now, after over 18 months of abstinence, it is still that way for me. I got a new handle on that split second "first drink" decision moment. It has taken years and years for me to truly understand what really happens in that micro-second. This is the power you do have.

Will I be abstinent forever? I just don't know the answer to that, and not knowing is no disgrace for me. I accept that I don't know, but today I am sober, and healthy, and that is good enough for now.

Neil

[lucky 2.0]

Fate vs Free Will

free will vs fate....

Sorry I am not responding directly to the issue @ hand but I will tell you where my mind goes with the question.

Presbyterians believe in destiny. I learned that very young and I think it was the first intellectual thing I learned. It bothers me but who knows. I do believe we choose our parents and we are thrilled as spirits to be on earth to reconcile for past wrong doings and to learn to do better.

That is really beside the point though for me right now. I just watched the Diana Special on NBC and it was a celebration but still poignant with her early death @ 35. My dad died @ 51. I am 42. I cannot imagine one 9 more years on earth. I am not concerned with free will vs fate but with life vs death. I think it is a more serious question- and free will vs fate is certainly not a shallow question.

I have fresh flowers all the time. I change the water. I cut the stems. I add 7-UP which is supposed to make them last longer. But they die eventually and I am sad. But it is time to throw them away. They had life. I have life. And one day I will be thrown away too.

Our life is short. Please make it count. But do not ask me exactly what that means but I fear mine is not counting.

[Cashregister]

Fate vs Free Will

I'm with Flip.

I am here because of the lucky genes my ancestors had that brought me into being - the chances of not being here are a lot higher. So I am going to enjoy what I have - and if to enjoy the evolutionary chance i've been given means not drinking, well not drinking it is

Cheers
Cashy

[louise]

Fate vs Free Will

Lucky why do you fear yours is not counting?

[Cashregister]

Fate vs Free Will

Lucky, every life counts.
Cashy

xxx

[lushy]

Fate vs Free Will

Awww Duck, stop it. If your life doesn't count, then neither does mine. And I know mine does. So does yours.

Free will vs. fate? With the brain I was born with, I think it is a mixture of both. I definitely choose to pick up that glass of wine, but with the brain I was born with I want more than the normal person. My dad bled out at the age of 58 from alcoholism. He was dead for four days before anyone found him. Did he want that for himself? I highly doubt it. Did he have the tools to deal with it and understand how he could change it? Nope. But I do. And we all do here. And that is a beautiful thing.