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Rig,
I must be following your lead, in part. Kudzu rules my life right now and that has worried me, but you are at three months and reducing dosages so thats great news for me.

My biggest struggle is to stop thinking I can drink moderately.. if I could ONLY get that thought out of my brain I think I'd be just fine and dandy!!!!! Fortunately its often raised on this board so it keeps it in my frontal lobe that I really cant do that..... Not that I dont have heaps 'else' to work on in my growth!!!
ATT

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RE: Let's give this a try

Hi, I am very interested i nthe doses of Kudzu you were taking and if they went beyond what we have been discusing. I am finding things better with Kudzu and L-Glut but the desires/cravings are still strong. I am taking 5,000 L-Glut and 2,400 Kudzu with no side effects but not feeling a big relief that this is getting me where I need to go.

I am scared that at the moment I am barely hanging on and I don't want to slip up.

Yvonne

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Re: RE: Let's give this a try

Hi there. A counsellor suggested to myself and my partner for me to enter a detox unit at the local hospital - prior to me finding this site. I was definately not keen, to say the least, but agreed to do it to save my relationship.

However, my partner actually decided, after doing some research it wouldn't be the best thing for me. I wasn't ready at that stage to give up drinking and he decided it wouldn't work if I was forced into doing something so drastic. He decided we needed to look at other options.

When I discovered MWO and asked my partner to read the postings, he initially refused. My persistence eventually paid off and he spent a couple of hours reading the postings on MWO. It changed his mind and we decided I would get the Topamax.

Unfortunately, the Topa had extreme side effects for me, as do most meds, so I had to cease taking it. I was only on 50mg.

I strongly disagree that Topa must be taken to succeed, and I agree with RJ that everyone has their own way of controlling their drinking. While abstaining is the only way some can do this, others can moderate their drinking. If moderation doesn't work, then abstaining may be the only option.

Personally, I couldn't begin to imagine not being able to savour a nice wine, so moderation is a must for me - which means I make it a must. I admit it takes willpower, but being able to remember what happened the night before is a big enough buzz.

Topamax does reduce the cravings, but for me, it was more a learning procedure, that stopped the HABIT of reaching for a drink. While I chose moderation, I found that after one drink, sometimes two, I really didn't want any more.

Admittedly, since coming off the Topa, I slipped up badly, but I'm now back on track, because I know I can do it if I just get out of the HABIT. I still have the occasional glass of wine or two, but not every night and I don't drink to excess like I did prior to starting this program.

The Topamax is not helping me now - what is - is the learning experience of not drinking whilst I was taking it.

Some people on this site have very fixed opinions about what works. Often they are based on their personal experience, so please read everything with an open mind and don't be offended or discouraged by some comments. I can recommend reading anything from Amy or Mish. They are wise ladies.

I agree it's probably best to continue with the sessions your husband has put in place, as much as I agree with you, that it leaves you little time for yourself, and you were railroaded into it. Could I suggest you give it a month. If it's not working, sit your husband down and tell him. Persist, if it's not going to cause problems, about your husband reading some of the postings here. It just may change his mind. It worked for me...

Your comment that you still want to drink probably scares the hell out of him. Keep posting on here and let us know how you're going.

Kath

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Re: RE: Let's give this a try

Well this stinks... I had just typed my response and went to send it and then it was deleted so now I have to start all over and things are never quite the same the second time around. Oh well...
Kath thank you for your reply, your words are really an inspiration to me. I think you are right that reaching for that next drink is a habit and it can be broken with the right learning materials. I am happy to hear that the program with moderation is working for you even without the topamax. It has now been 31 days of abstnance for me. I have learned a lot. It is like the saying "you don' t appreciate what you have until it's gone." I now appreciate the taste of wine. I can't tell you how much I wanted to enjoy a glass of nice wine with my Thanksgiving feast.
I think the Kudzu and L-glutomine has really helped me. Over the weekend I had one non-alcoholic beer the entire weekend. I was really happy with myself seems as how there was an ice chest full of many types of regular beer but I reached for the O'douls. Even with that I still made it last about an hour and a half. I felt that I was possibly starting to be able to control the "beast." However, my husband had a different view. He got upset with me and said that by having a beer tasting beverage I was giving in. It just seems to me that I can't win. I have made things very clear to him that I am staying abstinent until I have control and then I will drink in moderation again. And yes, any mention of drinking does scare the hell out of him but I am only 26 years old and am not going to go the rest of mylife without enjoying a glass of wine or an occasional beer. I now realize that I did abuse alcohol, I realize that I cannot let myself do that again. Therefore, like you, I will make moderation work for me.
Oh and yes I have continued to go to my group sessions and will probably continue until at least the end of the year. Thank you again for your comments.
Please keep in touch.
Thank you.
Nickie

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Re: RE: Let's give this a try

nikki i find this post really interesting because this really gets to the heart of alcoholism. If reaching for the next drink is just a bad habit that we can train ourselves out of then where does that leave the whole disease theory of alcoholism? Sometimes when i am in the mood i enter the website of the national institute of research on drugs and alcohol and read all the science stuff about an alcoholics brain chemistry. The gama the glutamate the excess dopamine etc and how its all going wrong inside our heads. How these brain chemicals just love to get a sniff of alcohol so they can go into their more! more! chant. Thats no bad habit is it? For me anyway i came to realise that i could no more train myself to stop the more! more! chant than i could train myself to stop blinking.I knew instinctively a long time time ago it was going to take a drug to do this. Topamax washes away the excess dopamine in the brain which leads to that feeling. Why do you not want to take it? Is it because of the outpatient program you are on? Maybe you have already given your reasons and i have missed them.Good luck.
I am only a few weeks ahead of you on this and i dont know for sure how its all going to end but wild horses wouldnt seperate me from my topiramate. I want that brain chemistry fixing.

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Re: RE: Let's give this a try

To answer your question about why I do not want to try the Topamax, it is because right now in my life I cannot chance the side effects. I hear how it is called the Dopamax and that it can affect how you spell things or even talk. I am taking the Bar Exam in a couple of months and can't risk not being able to type perfectly and/or not being able to get my thoughts out correctly. After I pass the bar, depending on how things are going, I will consider it more seriously. That is when I plan on drinking in moderation anyway. Also I think part of me says "This is my first time attempting "recovery" so I want to see how much I can do without the use of an powerful drug." I too have read about the chemistry of the brain being different and I understand that point of view, I am just not 100% convinced that my brain chemistry is different. I don't know I guess I am just one of those people who need to experience things for myself before I really believe it.
Thanks for the posting.

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Just Found You!

I have been looking for a message board like this for several weeks now, and am glad to have one! I have been on Topamax for about two months. I consider it to be the "miracle drug!" I am on a dose of 100mg a day, and it has completely erased the craving for alcohol.

For me, it worked almost immediately. Actually, it kicked in after the third day of taking it. Suddenly, I didn't want ANY alcohol. I am someone who would drink every single day, rain or shine. I started out taking 25 mg, and was gradually raised to 100mg.

As background, I am participating in a research study on the impact of Topamax on the cravings of alcohol. So one of my concerns/thoughts is whether or not I will continue to take Topamax once the research study is over in a few weeks. Since Topamax is already an approved drug (even though it is not for alcoholism), it makes it easier to obtain. So that is the good news!

Here is a question for the group: lately I have been having dreams where I drink one beer, and then I get so mad at myself! I say, "Why did I do that? I didn't even want it!"

I am wondering why I dream that I mess up and drink because in my waking hours, I don't think about alcohol at all. I am wondering if my subconscious is worried that I will screw up at some point.

But as a closing point, I have to say that I never thought I would find something that would really, truly get rid of that craving, that feeling in my brain that told that me I HAD to stop and buy alcohol. Topamax has really worked and made something different in my brain.

Also, regarding the side effects, I did experience a week where I was so doggone tired that I thought I was not going to make it. I also experienced the problems with concentration, and feeling like I was mentally challenged! I decided to stick it out, though, because it was totally worth it to be stupid but sober! My doctor also agreed to not increase the meds at that point. I stayed at 100 mgs.

Nice to meet everyone here and I am so proud of you!! I am also so happy that you found Topamax!!

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Re: Just Found You!

Wow, Welcome, what is quite a story Skier Girl!! I'm glad you found this place as well.

Please continue to post, and post in a new thread, this one is kind of old, I want the rest of the list to meet you too

Janet

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Re: RE: Let's give this a try

Nickie,
If you are taking the bar in a couple of months then you a plenty of time to try topamax to see if you have the side effects. If you do, then discontinue using until after. I am taking 300 mg per day with almost no side effects. I experienced just a bit of tiredness in the beginning, and some tingling-now nothing. I am sure you are scared. I was petrified. Believe me, think of how much better you will be able to do on your exams if you are able to cut you drinking to a half, third or even less as some of us have been able to do. Take the plunge, you really have nothing to loose, but a drinking problem.

Good luck to you!

-Nina

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Skier Girl,
I was wondering where you are located. There is a research study going on in my town. I decided not to participate and ordered the topiramate offshore. I called the research people to find out if they knew anyone who would prescribe the medicine off label here - and they didn't. I was wondering if you are in the same location as me? The topiramate is doing wonders for me and I won't give it up, even if I have to pay outrageous prices for it!

Adria

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Let's give this a try

Hey Opinionated!

I, too, was terrified of the side effects of topamax, having tried it once before and been pretty dopey (but not making ANY attempt to cut back drinking while I waited for it to work ). On this attempt, I am now up to 50 mg. and have cut my drinking in half (not that easy, cause I don't have all the supplements or the books or CD's, yet), but I'm not having the same brain fog that I did before. There's no completely magic bullet, but many useful tools. I can't wait to get more of them in place. I can't wait to get up to 75 mg. of topa.

My ex was a lawyer, and I know how hard it is to study for the bars, but it's true, if you can start topa now, while there is still time to deal with side effects, you will be better off. Also, I think a lot of the tiredness is the subtle withdrawal from alcohol. I never knew, until reading some of these posts, that alcohol withdrawal, could make you so tired. (I was always so confused that when I didn't drink for a week or two, I was exhausted.....)

Good luck, and I hope you're finding help in all these posts!

Kathy

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Hi Skier Girl!

I don't know what your dream means, but I remember that when I stopped smoking, I would have dreams about smoking cigarettes and wake up with a horrible sense of failure, they seemed so real. What a relief to finally come to fully and realize I hadn't smoked! I felt like maybe some part of me really wanted to smoke, but I'm glad that I only did it in my dreams!!!

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Re: Hi Skier Girl!

Hi everyone, I am just finishing my second week of Topa. I went up to 50 mg after completing one week at 25mg. I haven't noticed any change in my behaviour or in my cravings so I am really hoping for something to happen soon. I go to 75 this week and I have been scared that I will recognize the physical or mental side effects because of my work but it is almost worse having no side effects and no reduction in alcohol cravings so far. At this point nothing has changed.

YB

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Re: Hi Skier Girl!

Hi, I am up to 150 mg. and finally starting to feel that it is working in terms of alcohol craving reductions. In the original study, I believe that many people did not start to experience the real beneficial effects until they reached 200 mgs. That is, if I am reading the study correctly. I know that it is hard to be patient and continue to titrate very slowly, but it is important to avoid side effects. Even people who take this medication for migraines have to titrate slowly and sometimes go up to 600 mgs. And for each person it is a little different. I would say that it wasn't until 150 mgs. that I really noticed a reduction in cravings, though before that I was helped immensely by kudzu and stayed sober about a month before my topa got here (but now my kudzu, is gone, and I have a feeling my new order didn't go through, so I know it's the topa having effects). Please be patient waiting for the effects of the medication to take place, because it will happen in its own time for each person, but in the meantime, why not concentrate on the other aspects of the program, the exercise, CDs, etc. and you could even try keeping a journal - for me, I know, the results took time, but are worth it.

Adria