Progress thread for ne

[Lo0p]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1180501 wrote: and Lo0p is as sane as he ever was, and they've both been at it for a while...

That's not saying much but it is true, confirmed daily by people other than myself.

I've been wondering about the Emperor for a while. When he was sick he had a complete lack of ego to the point where it seemed to me he felt like he had Imposter Syndrome. Now he's gone and flipped a complete 180 and is acting like a narcissistic egomaniac.

I feel great about all of the things I've been able to do with my own will since I've been cured. But I try to keep all of my shortcomings in sight so that I can work on them. Ask Is, I am my own harshest critic.

I'm quite positive HDB hasn't had any negative affect at all on my personality or mental health. 2 years next month.

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Bruun . . . just so you know, I hear you. Apparently I turned Ne onto Jon Kabat-Zinn, and I'm even sure what I did to do that And she's not helping me out by reminding me!

I'll give some thought to starting a thread . . . one thing I'm certain of is that meditation is NOT what most people think it is. Sit down, feel comfortable, clear your mind :H:H Right, and while your at it swim upstream against however many millions of years of human evolution and figure out how to do that with a calm and tranquil mind.

If you think getting sober is tough, try seriously taking on the habit patterns of the mind! I really don't think it's possible for one to do this work on one's own. How do we do what we don't know how to do? I have a couple of things to offer here - an incredibly rich trove of resources - books, talks, mp3's, CD's, reliable teachers . . . and my own experience "on the cushion," which has been extensive, despite taking a few years off to drink most of the time.

Just now I'm dealing with my mom's rapid demise from a disease that has only been described in ancient Tibetan ayurvedic texts. On the one hand, it's devastating; on the other hand, it's incredibly fascinating . . . my mom, my connections to doctors and researchers who know about this disease and talk about it in the language I have learned from studying ancient cultures. It's either tragedy or miracle . . . or maybe both.

Bruun, or anyone, if you have a serious interest in exploring "mind training," PM me and I'll give you some things that you can start with. When I feel that I have the capacity to be responsive on a regular basis, I'll open up some kind of thread/conversation in Holistic Health and we can see where that goes. I'm still curious, Ne, about what I gave you, how you've used it, and what it has done for you. Jon would be perfectly happy with you sharing what your own experience is, I promise!

[Lo0p]

Progress thread for ne

RedThread12;1180683 wrote: Just now I'm dealing with my mom's rapid demise from a disease that has only been described in ancient Tibetan ayurvedic texts. On the one hand, it's devastating; on the other hand, it's incredibly fascinating . . . my mom, my connections to doctors and researchers who know about this disease and talk about it in the language I have learned from studying ancient cultures. It's either tragedy or miracle . . . or maybe both.

I'm trying to figure out a way to ask you about this without sounding unsympathetic...I'll just ask: Can you please tell me what you know about this disease? You've really piqued my curiosity. I'm sorry to hear about what you and you're mother are dealing with. I've an innate curiosity about diseases. I don't think I'd have figured out my own if I didn't.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Hi Red, soooo sorry to hear about your mom's challenge. It does sound like a cosmic message designed for you and perhaps her, though. Like Loop, I'd be interested in learning about it, if you're open to sharing.

Regarding the meditation thread, I don't think you have to be present (even during the initial thread start ) to generate interest and sharing. You can always put in a disclaimer and then when you come back, you'll see what is on the minds of us drunks out here in MWO land. LOL There's lots of circling around the drain and neurosis of course, and tons of habit. I know my brain is like a rock, and I agree that the work is intense and probably it scares me, or intimidates me enough that I haven't tried it in a long time.

Check this out - I have been invited to go to this class by my hypnotherapist, its $180US though. And I'm not sure this monkey can do it. Its a two day seminar (10am-2pm) on Kunlun Nei Gung. Is this suitable for someone with NO experience quieting the monkey mind or with yoga? I sure could use some bliss but I don't feel I can 'get there' and don't want to waste the money. On the other hand, I don't want to waste the opportunity...


SEMINAR INFORMATION

Unleash Your Bliss! with Chris Tittle & Rachael Johnson

Pre- register today at:

www.hiddenradiance.com

It's an honor to bring Chris Tittle to share the KUNLUN NEI GUNG?
System with us. It is a simple, yet powerful practice that: releases
energy/emotional blocks, unlocks dormant ?supernatural? abilities

and awakens an almost unbearable internal bliss.

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

LoOp: No sensitivity needed. The entry point is "Morgellons Disease." My mother is (and I've seen it) infested with things that have no genetic material known to mankind, according to the head researcher at Oklahoma State University's Center for Research Science. He dropped his cancer research in order to look at this disease because he and his wife thought it had the potential to bring greater benefit to mankind.

I'm in touch with him and an ayurvedic physician - they both agree that the earliest references to these disease is in ancient Tibetan texts. Although the head of the research department told me that all he really knew about this disease is that "This is some weird shit," there are some fascinating theories about the thinning of the veil between epochs that are being discussed around the world . . . if you remain interested feel free to PM me or I'll give you my phone number.

Bruun - I looked at your link. If you can completely disregard their suggestions about the outcome, it might be worth the time and money. You might learn a simple practice or two that would be helpful. IMO, and only IMO, the "supernatural, unbearable bliss" shit is just that. Tell me how anyone could even imaging that sitting down and being with themselves head-on would bring unbearable bliss? And if they suggest that they have a technique to by-pass that, well . . . yeah, good luck. Spiritual by-pass doesn't work. I'm not saying don't go, you might very well find very helpful stuff, but there's still everything else that has to be faced.

If your gut tells you that your hypnotherapist is on the right track and you want to follow . . . then by all means go. I'm too old and worn out to have opinions about what other people do. The worst that can happen is that you spend some money, some comfortable time and some uncomfortable time, and you either learn something useful or you don't. You might even get really high and feel really good from it, which would be a great thing for your neurons. Seems they need a little lift! Just don't invest too much expectation would be my suggestion.

I'm really, really, trying to be supportive for you to check out any and everything that interests you. I took myself out of addiction when I was 31 years old through meditation. Simple, yes. Put my butt on the cushion two hours every day. Hardest thing I've ever done in my life. The rest of what they say raises my eyebrows to my hairline.

But hey, you've got to start somewhere, and at least you would know that you wouldn't be drinking during the hours of the course! I just open my heart to you and trust that you'll do what serves you best. Good luck, either way!!

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

redhead77;1180513 wrote: You could try Murphy. :H

Well, I'm up for it...as long as Terry doesn't have a beard that is. I do have some standards you know!

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

Ne/Neva Eva;1180501 wrote:
Redthread... Kabat-Zinn has a suggestion (maybe even a rule?) about not talking about meditation if one is new to it. It means, I suppose, that one is not practicing it if one is running off at the mouth about it. I think that was more a case of not wasting your time trying to explain mindfulness to others and instead using that time to practise it.

Ne/Neva Eva;1180501 wrote: When I posted, and subsequently deleted my post, this morning, I felt very...alone. Plus it wasn't right. I'll try again tomorrow.

Thank feck for that, then you did post; I thought I was going mad.

Everyone. Stop deleting your fucking posts ferckrissakes!


Ne/Neva Eva;1180501 wrote: Bac(k) to the books for me. Nothing less than perfection is acceptable there.

Perfection is impossible to attain so be prepared for constant disappointment. As I may have mentioned before...on numerous occasions. Just sayin'.

[Murphyx]

Progress thread for ne

Redthread, meditation is hard work! And it's impossible for this bac-somnolent boy not to nod off whilst listening to Jon Kabat-Zinn's guided meditations. His voice seems designed to make me fall akip.

Please count me in as one of those wanting your help/input meditation-wise. Could you suggest someone less sleep-making, perhaps with a really screechy, grating voice, lol.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

I was pretty full of myself yesterday, and had a little comeuppance on the temper-tantrum thread. It's always nice when humility is served up anonymously and without too much pain, isn't it?

I'm still angry, outraged actually, about the whole idea that baclofen, or just about anything we do to get well, is thought of or referred to as a crutch. I simply can't abide by the idea that people, professionals in the forefront of treatment for this disease, are still stuck in 1940. Not to mention denigrating, dismissive and outrageously arrogant.

Between that and the recent interest in Prohibition I got to wondering about the epidemiology of alcoholism and addiction. What did people with our disease do if they couldn't get high/out of their minds? (Isn't that the crux of it? Not so much the high but getting out of the mind? I'm not sure yet.)

Missy, there's a list of things I wanted to share with you and others who are still stuck in the grips. Sadly it will have to wait. These are things that are related specifically to the benefits of HDB treatment, not just sobriety. Are there others who want to start the list?

RedT, I used to listen to Marsha Linehan. I was introduced to her (DBT--it's a kind of therapy) in outpatient rehab by the therapist I see now. The reason I see the therapist I see now (despite the fact that she is very entrenched in the status quo of treatment protocols) is because she used to start our group sessions with 10 minute meditations, beginning and ending with ringing a beautiful, breathtaking bell she got in Thailand.

[Aside: When I told her about the good doctor she likened him to Kevorkian! I was a little alarmed. She explained that she perceived that Levin seemed to realize that the system would move too slowly, too many people would suffer, so he made it his calling to help people directly despite the risks. I like the analogy and think she's pretty perceptive.]

You, Red, recommended John Kabat-Zinn as well as some other stuff. I looked into it all and he's done some interesting research and is very mainstream, so I chose to start there with the links you provided.
Murphy found some more links, the Beginner's Guide or something, and so I listen to those. They're not complete (did you know that Murph?) and I'll order the CDs soon. I often find it annoying and uncomfortable. (Listen to the raisin, for crissakes???) The uncomfortable part feels as though I'm getting somewhere. I embrace that, a bit. I also find it invigorating and generally helpful. (Murph, on one of the lying down meditations he says that it should be a goal, a mission or something NOT to fall asleep. Mind over matter...)
I believe, at a cellular level (which is to say the most basic) that it begins and ends with mindfulness. Beth (the therapist) agrees. We're starting there.
I don't think I can do it as well as I'd like on my own and I'm fairly desperate for a spiritual community, so I'm looking into options. There's not much in my little part of the world, but you sent me a link to some stuff going on in Charlottesville at UVA. There is one thing I am COMPLETELY clear on, even when I'm totally lacking clarity. Money and time aren't really impediments when it comes to finding a way to make this kind of thing happen. It's pretty amazing the way that works.

(In fact, I've got so much going on that's inexplicable, specifically in terms of time and money, that I could write a tome... :H For instance, how is it that we're bringing in ~$30k less than we were last year, and all the bills are getting paid with some left over? Did we drink THAT much? I think it has much more to do with the impulse control OA mentioned in his book. That and clear priorities. Anyway... There always, always seems to be the time and money to make happen what needs to happen. Knock wood. I'm still superstitious about it.)

Enough from me.

Hiya, lurkers and others! Hope it is, was or will be a good day for you all.

(oh. And the MD/HDB thing? It seems pretty pervasive, if three is enough of a sample. Which is actually a relief. It's not bac, it's medical school! :H)
:l peeps!

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

RedThread12;1180818 wrote:

Bruun - I looked at your link. If you can completely disregard their suggestions about the outcome, it might be worth the time and money. You might learn a simple practice or two that would be helpful. IMO, and only IMO, the "supernatural, unbearable bliss" shit is just that. Tell me how anyone could even imaging that sitting down and being with themselves head-on would bring unbearable bliss? And if they suggest that they have a technique to by-pass that, well . . . yeah, good luck. Spiritual by-pass doesn't work. I'm not saying don't go, you might very well find very helpful stuff, but there's still everything else that has to be faced.

If your gut tells you that your hypnotherapist is on the right track and you want to follow . . . then by all means go. I'm too old and worn out to have opinions about what other people do. The worst that can happen is that you spend some money, some comfortable time and some uncomfortable time, and you either learn something useful or you don't. You might even get really high and feel really good from it, which would be a great thing for your neurons. Seems they need a little lift! Just don't invest too much expectation would be my suggestion.

Thanks Red, dagnabbit, I could use some damn bliss! My hypnotherapist told me she recommended it because she said it helps bring peace to your life and everyone can use some more peace. They also have a Meetup page and weekly I think they meet Saturdays, so I could go to that. The first time you are charged $80.00 and they give you instruction for that. Then you continue attending and it seems to be free after that. Maybe I'll attempt that. This could be one of my new healthy nonalcoholic activities.... Thanks for your advice.

[RedThread12]

Progress thread for ne

Here is my favorite series of CD's (mp3's) from Jon Kabat-Zinn. They make a pretty comprehensive stab at both context and practices: Mindfulness Meditation by Jon Kabat-Zinn

One could listen to them sequentially, begin to integrate the practices on a daily basis, and get somewhere with it (although that makes me laugh because my refrigerator has a quote from Gertrud Stein on it that says "once you get there, you realize there's no there there :H)

If you like to read, get Jack Kornfield's "A Path With Heart," and "After the Ecstasy, the Laundry." Jack is a rare and wonderful teacher.

And now I'll tell those of you who are interested in these things where to find the single most awesome, mind-blowing resource for learning more about "western Buddhism" and a spiritual approach to life that I know of . . . . drum-roll:

Dharma Seed

Here you will find hundreds of talks from dozens of teachers covering a vast array of topics from the most esoteric to the most practical and mundane. The context of these talks is this: when students sit a meditation course of some number of days (3-120), at the end of each day the teacher offers a "discourse" to explain and help students integrate their experiences. So, of course, not all of them are for everyone. But you can search by topic or by teacher to find talks that interest you, and just take a listen at the perspectives offered. It really is a most amazing resource.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest a couple of teachers whose talks are quite accessible to anyone, I think: Jack Kornfield, Wes Nisker (truly, deeply funny, as well), Anoushka Fenandopulle, Diana Winston.

If you're interested in the interface of neuroscience and "brain training," which is becoming a really BIG deal in the scientific/medical field, there's Dan Siegel and Rick Hanson and Rick Mendius. They've all got their own websites where they offer incredibly good and incredible amounts of information demonstrating that the idea of "brain training" is gathering more and more substantial scientific evidence demonstrating the brain's plasticity and ability to change in response to how we apply our attention, or . . . mindfulness.

Dan Siegel's latest book, "The Mindful Brain," is one of the most worthwhile books I've ever read (well, actually I listened to it). He's not a Buddhist. His definition of spirituality is "realizing that there's more than me." He backed into this whole field through his observations as a child psychologist, discovered that the he hadn't made up the word "mindfulness," and is just f'in brilliant, IMO.

So there - thanks, Ne, for letting me utilize your thread. I woke up very early today to teach a couple of private classes, with full intentions to drive 3.5 hours to see my mother, and hit the wall. Tomorrow is soon enough for that.

Spirituality - which is a term I don't particularly like - or the recognition that there may be things in the world that we really have utterly no clue about, and become a little humble and curious, seems to be burgeoning. There are SO MANY great teachers and resources and opportunities to do some inner exploration. It really is a very unique time we're living in. Able to download JKZ? Order books by the Dalai Lama from audible.com? Find a yoga class across the street or around the corner? These are all very recent happenings. So much pain and suffering and so many things falling apart, and at the same time, access to real knowledge and wisdom like never before in the world.

As Leonard Cohen (I'm a total addict) says, "There is a crack in everything. That's where the light comes in."

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Awesome Red, and thanks Neva for the rental space!

RT, I will definitely make use of this information. I am a HUGE reader, drunk or not, actually I read LESS when I spend my Saturdays and Sundays NOT hungover but ... I am able to remember! Gads, who'da thunk? Not that I'm never hung.

Anyhow, thanks so much, I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness put into the post. I still think it would be great to start a thread in Holistic for this, what would you call it? I'll start it so there's a place to post besides my "titting up" thread which is really me seeking therapy and not necessarily as helpful to the world as a thread on a specific topic. I'd like to share experiences there and post my start-up thoughts as well.

However, I am certainly not a meditation practicer and therefore feel fraudulent starting a thread there since my name would be attached to it forever. I think it should be started by someone with more to offer than I have.

Thanks again! :l

[gratitude]

Progress thread for ne

bruun,
why not call it "meditation as medication" and leave it in the meds section? I'm partial to you guys.

[Bruunhilde]

Progress thread for ne

Not a bad idea at all, Grat, but I think lots of lurkers/browsers would not find it here.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Progress thread for ne

Update:
Indifference has meant some incredible changes in my life. I will list them.

*My husband noticed how happy I was. He took baclofen. He reached indifference.
*We were, without question, headed for divorce. Now he's my favorite play mate and best friend and lover. I was very worried that we would have nothing in common once the booze was removed, since we've always been drunk(s) together. It has been the opposite of that. I am very, very glad I chose him, and he me, those many years ago.
*I went back to school full time and for the first time I'm excelling at that.
*I am also finding success in almost everything I'm attempting. It's weird. I attribute this to the fact that baclofen has completely freed me from the disease. I don't think about alcohol much when I'm not here. I also suspect that the anti-anxiety and antidepressant aspects of baclofen treatment have helped in this regard. I'm not suggesting I'm cured or inoculated. I am suggesting that this treatment is like no other.
*I don't spend money compulsively any more.
*I don't wake up hungover, or even groggy.
*I also have to give a HUGE amount of credit for all of these benefits to the support system I've found (and created) here at MWO. Thank you my dear friends.
*The information compiled here, particularly on the Consolidated Baclofen Thread, has been invaluable.
*The reason that those two things were vital is because the side effects I encountered were brutal and life altering. It remains worth it. If your side effects are terrible, just keep taking the pills until you reach the goal and then go down a bit. You'll never regret it.
*I can manage most aspects of my life pretty effectively. The one exception is MWO. :H

There's more, there's always more. :H
That should be enough. It is for me!
Peace out! Bacina-longish-bit.
:l