Mg's Baclofen Log

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

I don't think I even want to know what tinnitus is...

First day back at work after 4 weeks away.. Took 30mg in 3 doses yesterday, and 10mg this morning (7:15AM) before work and again at 3:00PM. Luckily I still have a job, everyone welcomed me back.. except the little turd who was my team lead before I left.. He definitely didn't contribute to my job satisfaction.. Fortunately the work he was coordinating was finished while I was away and now I'm back working with another fellow that I respect a lot more.. yay.. no more dealing with the little turd..

Was gonna wait 8 hours for my second dose (i.e. 3 x 10mg today every 8 hrs) but started getting headachy and thought maybe to shorten the interval.. Might try dosing every 4 hours during the day, just hope the 7-8hrs sleep cycle doesn't cause any disturbance..

Was thinking of trying a drink tonight, more like an experiment.. but maybe best to leave that 'til the weekend.. or not.. just took another 10mg (7:00PM), so maybe the thought will fade.. Kinda curious if I'll have a wicked hangover like some people report if I only have 1-2 drinks.. again, best to wait for the weekend for such experiments I suppose...

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

Oh.. btw.. still haven't received any of my other Bac orders.. still waiting on the one from 4Rx (ordered same time as Goldpharma and from pharmacyescrow (more expensive and ordered at least a few days before the others). Guess I'll be going with Goldpharma for my next order unless I find some difference in the meds to make me prefer one of the others.

[bleep]

Mg's Baclofen Log

You definitely want to break your dose up into as many times as is feasibly possible. This will not only ensure you have a consistent supply of baclofen in your body, but will minimise the SE's.

Tinnitus is just hearing sounds that aren't there, not really anything unpleasant. For example, I often think my phone is ringing, when it's not.

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

So its day 8 on Bac.. My tit schedule so far has been totals per day: 10, 30, 30,40,40,40,50mgs plan on staying at 50 today.

I was Al free for 9 days, prior to last night (Friday night). Thought I would see how I would react to drinking... Its the weekend, and my objective as I've described is to be a 'normal' drinker, without weekend drinking/going out turning back into a drinking always affair.. I'm hoping Bac will help with that.. but obviously the jury is still out. Had 2 drinks before going out where I had 4 drafts, and then a nightcap when I got home.. So 7 drinks in all..

Unlike others who described drinking on Bac to taste bad.. not do anything.. I didn't really notice anything.. It tasted just yummy, I didn't find I felt more drunk or anything, and although had a hangover a bit this morning, I don't think it was anything more than if I had drank for the first time after 9 days sober without Bac.. Maybe my dose is still so low that it isn't really doing much yet.

I'm enjoying a drink right now.. Saturday afternoon, and probably will go out again tonight.. I guess the big test will be going back to Al free tomorrow, and for the rest of the week. I've managed to do this in the past by will power alone, so I'm confident I can do it again, and maybe the Bac will help.. Probably will up my dose tomorrow.

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

Its day 10 on Bac, I've titrated up pretty fast I think, I'm at 100mg/day now broken into 20mg doses every 4 hours. No SE's worth mentioning; I'm still sleeping well, although I had an odd dream last night. I met some guy, and he offered to take me to play golf.. I've played golf in the past a few times.. but hardly an active golfer.. I really suck at it too! I even remember telling the guy how bad I suck at golf.. which is also weird since usually I forget my dreams pretty fast. Hardly disturbing or anything.. just kinda weird I would dream such a thing..

I'm also finding that about 3 hours after my last dose, I get kinda dopey feeling.. don't know if it is maybe Bac withdrawal.. I think I will stay a few days at 100mg, and try breaking my dose to 10mg every 2 hours and see if that helps.

I can't say I've hit my 'switch' yet, as I've been drinking daily since the weekend.. wasn't planning on drinking Sunday night, but my ex-girlfriend payed me a surprise visit (on her way through town, travelling somewhere else), and I had to get a few drinks in her to 'lubricate' the situation Would be rude to let her drink alone! I only had 4 drinks and woke up fine for work even though stayed up later than we should have.. Drank monday night a few, cuz I felt like it.. and on #2 so far tonight.. As long as I don't over do it, and wake up ok and go to work.. Keep taking the pills is the general advice on here.. So I'm not gonna feel guilty having a few drinks after a long day at work.. Moderation I hope will prevail.

Other minor SE's I've noticed (not really anything.. but I mention them for the benefit of others that might have similar things and worried if it is normal): Occassional muscle aches, and my legs kinda feel tired when I'm walking (especially if around 3hrs+ since last dose).

Finally received my last orders: I ordered less than a week ago 200x25mg Aluid brand from goldpharma (they came in less than a week!) Haven't tried it yet. Got my order from 4Rx finally (ordered same time as my first goldpharma order.. so got 2nd order from goldpharma same day as first from 4rx). 4Rx brand is Fexobac (haven't tried yet). First goldpharma was Vioridin, and I have Pacifen from phamacyescrow.

Would appreciate any comments on baclofen brand efficacy.. I've searched a bit and found some stuff, but even the dedicated threads are not very specific.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has used Vioridin, Pacifen, Fexobac or Aluid as well as other brands and noticed any difference in potency or SE's.

For what its worth, I've used only the Vioridin and Pacifin so far.. Can't say I've noticed any difference, but maybe they are both 'weak' brands since I have no real SE's at 100mg/day.. I will post if I notice anything re Aluid or Fexobac.

[LadyLush]

Mg's Baclofen Log

MG,

Okay I am putting it out here..I am on Pacifen, out of New Zealand.
On this site I never hear where I get it from or any negatives and/or positive comments.
I am thinking it may not be as potent but it works for me. I am at 100 mg. as well.
I feel great and will go up on Thursday; the switch is not here but I can taste it, I can smell it, and I will not settle for anything less!

Lady

[bleep]

Mg's Baclofen Log

Hi mg,

Sounds like it's going well so far, and your plan of sticking to a 100mg's is a good one. It gives the baclofen time to work on your brain.

The 3 hour buzz is not baclofen withdrawal, it's the baclofen kicking in! For me it was about 4 hours. I take baclofen every 2 hours, so for a long time I thought it was a 2 hour cycle, but it was the previous batch kicking in.

The tired legs you describe are normal, I ended up with quite a "slappy" style of walking for a bit.

Bear in mind that SE's are precisely that. SIDE effects, and you may or may not feel them. The main effect is quietly at work, and you will feel that one day, maybe just not now.

I wouldn't feel bummed about drinking - it's why you are taking this stuff in the first place!

A word of caution about going up too fast - just because you aren't getting SE's doesn't mean it's not working. Give it time!

I can't really speak to the different brands, as I am the same one I have always taken.

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

OK, so its day 20 on Bac.. I was trying to keep an organized day-by-day diary of dozage schedule, drinks consumed, how I felt / side effects.. but as many might have discovered just remembering if / when you took your last dose can be a challenge.

I was mixing different brands, taking 10, 20 or 25mg every 2 hours depending on the time of day. I'm at 150-175 mg/day now, and with that dosage I'm trying to be more consistent taking 25mg Aluid brand every 3hrs. If/when I increase dosage again, will start adding in 10mg extra.. maybe single brand at a time..

As far as effectiveness / side effects, this is so subjective and I'm probably influenced by other comments I've read on hear (that Pacifen is less potent.. and that Aluid has less SE), but that said, I will comment on my thoughts... Take it with a grain of salt.

I include photos of the packaging, if any one is concerned about crossing customs, being raided in a night club or police stop.. loose little white pills can raise eyebrows... I also prefer blister packs as easier to count pills, and they don't rattle in the post / customs import.

Vioridin 10mg, Viofar LTD, Greece, Goldpharma, 5 x 10pill blister packs per box, box English and Greek, minimal less professional looking print on packs. Pills can be broken in two on split line, generally easily but sometimes the 2 halves come out uneven.

Potency seems decent. SE of drowsy / dizziness seem higher

Pacifen 10, Pacifen Pharmaceuticals, New Zealand, prescribtionescrow, plastic bottle of 100 pills, English only on bottle. No blister pack, so might raise initial suspicion, however pills are embossed BN 10, G so easy enough to confirm what they are. Has split line to break in 2, haven't tried..

Potency seems lower. Less SE

Fexobac-10, Genpharma International, India, 4Rx, no box, blister packs of 10 pills, most profesional looking print on packs - does mention 'India' but all english and clearly identified as prescription medication.

Potency seems good. Less SE.

Baclofen AL 25mg, Aluid Pharma, Germany, Goldpharma, boxed blister packs of 10 pills, box printed only in German. Printing on looks professional, but only lists drug name and pharm. address in German. Tablets have very nice looking split lines and deep recessed 'V' indentations to split in 4, I haven't tried though.

Potency seems very good.. but they are 25mg. SE low.

So my top choice would be Aluid through goldpharma. The price is lowest, and goldpharma ships really fast. I would also buy Fexobac again, even though pills from India might sound scary, they are the most prossional looking of all and the quality seems good. Unfortunately 4rx shipping is much slower than Goldpharma.

Images: 1st - Left = Fexobac, Right = Pacifen
2nd - Left = Vioridin, Right = Aluid Attached files [img]/converted_files/1525266=6186-attachment.jpg[/img] [img]/converted_files/1525266=6187-attachment.jpg[/img]

[bleep]

Mg's Baclofen Log

It's going well then mg. Good to hear. Good progress on the dosage, hopefully it will continue all the way to the switch!

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

Sorry haven't checked in, in a while.

Had a pretty crappy week last... After about 1 week at 25mg every 3 hours (150-175mg / day), I reached a point of not being able to function. I'm sure it wasn't helped by weekend drinking, and a few in the evenings.. My sleep was non-existent, spent the whole night just tossing and turning with this bizzaar pressure in my head.

Couldn't function at work, left before lunch on Monday, and managed most of the day Tuesday. But after work Tues was real bad. You know how when you've been drinking a stretch, and start feeling jittery, turning to a drink makes it all feel better? Well, that didn't work.. It just made me feel worse, and more anxious / paranoid.. Had strange pit in my stomach feeling all night, with no sleep either.

I decided I had to cut down on the dozage (to be honest, was considering stopping the Bac.. but knowing I need to stop slowly..) I went back to 10mg every 3 hours, and Wed. called in sick from work, but no drinking. Got through it with a bit of Lorazapam (love that stuff.. too bad it can lead to real troubles.. I only use it when really messed up).

The drop down to 10mg/ 3 hours seems to be much better.. been getting full nights sleep, and able to function during the day. Still having a few nightcaps after work, but so far with the lower dosage I seem OK.

Like I said, was considering stopping the Bac, because the way it made me feel was not what I had in mind.. I don't like feeling messed up and unable to think clearly.. But seeing that things are better now, I will stay at this dosage and let it work, and be much slower going back up.. My 10mg pills are almost gone, so maybe the next step will be 1/2 of a 25 every 3 hours..

[bleep]

Mg's Baclofen Log

Sorry to hear you are having such a rough go of it mg. As you yourself have already decided, maybe going slowly is the way forward. Adjust to your current dose, then use the weekends to go up slightly, and gauge how you cope before Monday. Bear in mind it takes a couple of days at least to adjust to a new level, so make the increment quite small.

On a positive note, it already seems to be influencing your drinking. I recall the feeling of not turning to the bottle as readily, of not even being able to turn there, even though it felt like I wanted to. despite it not feeling so good for you, I think it is a positive step.

Good luck in working through this.

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

... so managed another week with the reduced dose of 12.5mg every three hours (~80-90mg/day). Continued drinking and poor sleep quickly caught up with me, had to call into work sick two Mon & Tues ago due to being just too messed up. Made it in late to work on that Wed. I had spent the Tuesday AF going through alc withdrawl; got some help from a bit of Lorazapam like the previous incident..

After getting through the withdrawl, lost my job that Wed I returned mostly due to all the time I'd taken off work plus "reshuffling"... bummer paycheck wise, otherwise I didn't really like it there or this town anyways..

Cut my bac again in half.. it and drinking really was messing me up..

Not exactly sure of this past week since being done work.. spent it drinking; figured I give myself a week not to worry about crap.. kept up the Bac at about 5-6.25g/ every 3 hours.

Things decended into a pretty bad and dark place.. would be waking up every 2 or three hours and feeling like I needed to take my bac + have some alcohol. I decided Thursday (Today is late saturday night / sunday morning) would be my last drinking day cuz obviously I needed to sober up to move / find new job and was starting to feel sick. I had my last drink at 3AM thur / fri morn).

Not sure exactly when, at some point I decided to stop the Bac, since I had decreased slowly as supposed. Not sure about yesterday.. I think I might have managed to sleep until 10AM, or was it 7AM.. woke up feeling pretty crappy.. and knew within a few minutes waking in bed that it was not going to be fun.. had to go puke right away That wonderful dry heaving vomitting that makes you feel like you are going to pass out. Memories of my experience from my first post in this thread coming back. At least it didn't last too long. And certainly reinforced that it had to be an AF day.

I decided to go back on Bac at my last dose 5-6.25mg / every 2-3 hours... dunno if it helped much.. again not sure exact times, but started with the massive sweating and tremmors at some point. Generally my bad bad time last 12hrs.. so if I could get to 3PM it would start getting better.. and by 3AM fear of calling 911 might pass.

Thankfully I had some Lorazapam left, and went on the system of 0.5mg every hour as needed that had worked for me previously. Also, decided to continue with Bac at 5-6.25mg every 2 hours (if anyone is wondering about this 5-6.25 I keep using.. I have 10mg and 25mg pills.. so 1/2 of one or 1/4 of the other..). Bac I've read in studies can be as effective as benzos for AWS (although the dose is 10mg every 8 hours.. I was already above this, so just kept at what I was used to). Also, read a study about combining Bac with Benzodiazapam that showed improved response for AWS..

Only pucked one more time during the day, also didn't last long in comparison to my old memories of days and nights of straight heaving... Good reminder though of why I orignally went AF for 2 months...

So spent a wonderful day trying to sleep for an hour at a time between Ativan (Lorazapam) doses, trying to drink as much fluids as possible (not alcohol!). The Ativan really does help with the tremmors, anxiety and rapid heartbeat. I think I went through about 4mg of Ativan which made me a bit nervous.. but some web research on AWS treatment reassured me that it was well below what might often be prescribed. As the day went on I gradually started feeling better, but still not as out of the woods as normally I would have felt.

I've also since learnt that each time you go through withdrawl, the next is worse.. great news huh?

Went to bed at about 12AM, guess I slept ok until maybe 5AM when I awoke to like a sharp rubber band snapping in my head. I was pretty delusional for a bit, and thought I had 2 needles I was supposed to put somewhere.. then trying to figure out which Bac pill bubble in like a mile long condom line of pill packs I was supposed to stick with the needle... then maybe I figured out it was something like the #452, that maybe calmed me down a bit, because I reliazed that none of this made any sense and it was just hallucinatory... I tried to go back to sleep, but was feeling kinda weird and starting to get anxious so got up and and took my dose of Bac and a 0.5mg Ativan sublinguil (this is a pill that dissolves under your tongue and acts faster). That calmed me down enough to go back to bed.

I managed to sleep for about 2 hours at a time, waking every 2 hours to take 5-6.25mg Bac, did this until about 12:30PM (today now.. well yesterday technically..)

Maintained Bac dosage every 2.5-3hrs.. last was at 2AM (now its almost 4AM.. so maybe 1 more before I hit the hay). Guess I felt on and off all day.. managed to eat something, and so anyhow..

The moral of the story is BAC is INSANE! Or at least Bac + alcohol is.. so maybe its just the alcohol.. But the Bac doesn't seem to be helping me any.. I'm seriously considering titting completely off.. I've basically taken 60-70mg today, so I read reduce 10mg/day each week.. not sure what to do..

They say Bac is not addictive, and the body doesn't crave it.. yet if you stop it you get withdrawl much like Alc or Benzos... When you are between doses you start feeling different ways.. I have to wonder if this assessment of its non-addictivness has been only on people with non-addictive personalities.

Mine is not the only scary story on here... Bac is far from the Dr.A excerpt I read to paraphrase: "I took this pill and my anxieties vanished. That night I slept like a baby" Maybe that last part is right - Waking up every hour or two screaming?

"Gradually I increased my dose and experienced little side effects until one day I was simply indifferent to alcohol"

Its far from that easy. Sells books I guess... Not to take away anything from Dr.A; although I have read other horror stories on here. I have also read many seemingly successes. I have learnt so much about brain chemistry and addiction trying this route, and Baclofen does show promise.

I fear what we are trying in here, going it alone, is very dangerous. I know many of us don't have a choice and really want to help ourselves. So it is really a shitty situation that this method should be closely controlled by a qualified doctor yet few if any exist.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Mg's Baclofen Log

MG, I don't know how to respond. I'm really sorry for all that you're going through. The circumstances sound really harrowing, particularly given the fact that it sounds like they were exacerbated by the bac and the AL.

I certainly have no suggestions or advice. I would think, given your physical symptoms and the AL withdrawal, that it would be a good idea to find some professional medical help. I'm certainly not qualified to suggest how to manage tapering off of bac and/or booze.

I am here, though, and thinking of you. Hoping that you'll be able to take some positive steps toward finding a way out, but more importantly, getting the immediate help you may need.
Take good care of yourself, MG.
:l
Ne

ps. My experience was vastly different than that of OA's, too.

[terryk]

Mg's Baclofen Log

While I'm not an opponent of using baclofen for acute alcohol withdrawal/detox, per se (I don't think it's been *proven* to work without *any* adjunct gaba-a controlling drugs), I think that self-prescribing *and* self-administering a detox protocol is too complicated to do on one's own. Medical supervision is best (I know, where are you going to find it?), but a buddy to help you see the forest for the trees seems like a minimum to help you with your taper (i.e. paulslice/susanna on this forum).

The big thing that strikes me here is your benzo use. As a former boozer who used a lot of Ativan and Klonopin to curb withdrawals, I've found out that the alcohol/benzo combo packs a huge punch that protracts and complicates withdrawal and detox. Alcohol withdrawal is usually managed in 4-7 days with benzos or anti-convusalants; Benzo withdrawal can easily last 7-10+ days depending on the drug and you need a careful taper of a benzo (usually a longer acting one) to combat that. Aside from reading the available literature, I've seen these scenarios played out with fellow patients during my own detoxs. Alcohol's effects in the body are relatively short-lived (I don't think that it's even described as having a half-life, your body metabolizes about a unit an hour), benzos have much longer duration of effect and probably a longer onset and duration of withdrawal symptoms. Make it an alcohol/benzo combo like you have (4mg of ativan in a day is a big deal) and you are going to have big problems. I would seriously consider some professional help, if not with the baclofen, with a booze/benzo detox. I beat booze and benzos with detox and baclofen (switched 9/26/10 @280mg/d) and I wish you the best in your recovery. -tk

[mg_789]

Mg's Baclofen Log

terryk;1103842 wrote: While I'm not an opponent of using baclofen for acute alcohol withdrawal/detox, per se (I don't think it's been *proven* to work without *any* adjunct gaba-a controlling drugs),
We asking for *proof* about baclofen in here now? But even should detox/rehab centers adopt a baclofen AWS regiment, of course they would have backups like benzos and stronger should things turn bad...

terryk;1103842 wrote: Make it an alcohol/benzo combo like you have (4mg of ativan in a day is a big deal) and you are going to have big problems.

Mayo-Smith MF. Pharmacological management of alcohol withdrawal specifies 2 to 4 mg every hour while CIWA-Ar score is at least 8-10 (severe AWS). I can't find the other reference that prescribed 1mg per hour for 8 hours for moderate AWS. As an additional point of reference when I was discharged from the ER my first experience, I was prescribed 5mg valium per hour as required. (0.5mg ativan is regarded equivalent to 5mg valium). Finally, the prescription I had was from someone who was prescribed for mild anxiety while flying.. It was 1mg 3x day as needed... So 4mg in one day doesn't seem like 'a lot' and was taken only for 1 day.

Had I presented to the ER with my condition of excessive sweating, tremmors, and rapid heartbeat... they would have surely shoved an IV of valium in my arm...

Anyhow.. I'm feeling OK right now.. actually the only real annoying symptom is constipation - Probably from the Ativan..