Me, myself and getting sober

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

I am so glad Ive given you something new to ponder on Ne:H

I do think it is the combination of meds, as you know I never got to HBD to see if that alone would do it after the first time I tried it I gave up on bac for a while and did go back to square one, then after the second time I tried it last year I have stayed on the low dose 50mg and believe I have never gone back, so yes maybe bac in high dose can do it alone, but I think its important for people who cant or dont want to go high to see that in low doses it it effective in some obscure way, not the bid bam of reaching indifferance on so many weeks but a change that just happens, the se's of the new med have now worn off and with my getting gabapentin off my doc I now only get need to get bac online. That is also reasuring because I worried that if I ever landed up in hospital taking a few meds I got online they wouldnt know, or if I told them probably wouldnt treat me.

The strangest thing tho,(its not strange at all actually) this morning I took my meds and am feeling better that I have in weeks but I had the feeling that something was missing, I couldnt put my finger on it but didnt feel quite at ease, I realised just before I hadnt taken my bac, Im a silly girl, so I have now taken it..

I know for a fact that there are a few things that have changed my life, they are MWO, coming on here each day keeps me focused on what Im dong and gives me other peeps experiences and views and friendship, my meds, getting the right meds at the right level as we know is not easy but well worth the effort, and time, things dont change in a day well stopping drinking can happen in a day but you know what I mean, deep inner changes take time, my brain needs time to rewire itself, my habits take time to change, and my family around me take time to trust me that I am not going to run off and do it all again.

These are 3 things that are totally transforming me, Im not going to say my life because the change is happening inside of me where it really matters.

xx:l

[ifulovelife2]

Me, myself and getting sober

Hiya Bebe

I can't directly answer your question about those drugs all having similar characteristics but what I do know about gabapentin (apart from my belief that it is a wonderdrug and I love it to bits) is that it was created with a kinda vague idea about its potential use. Since it didn't have much of a use as an anti-seizure medication for epilepsy, they've tried it out on every single type of pain relief and now use it really only for neuropathic pain. This is how it often goes with new drugs: they create with one use in mind, find it isn't particularly effective at that and then spend years trying it out on other conditions until they settle on one. In the case of gabapentin (which is a GABA analogue btw) I suspect they will eventually decide its true purpose is as a mood enhancer and anxiolytic.

What is the specific purpose your doc has prescribed it for you? And what dose?

Sorry Bebe, I should really look back through your posts and see what the new drug is you've been prescribed, but I'm extremely lazy and can't be arsed .

I'm sending good vibes to you, your mum and your uncle. Stay strong Sweety.

[ifulovelife2]

Me, myself and getting sober

deep inner changes take time, my brain needs time to rewire itself, my habits take time to change,

Yep, yep and yep. IMO, no matter what method one uses to beat the beast, all those three apply. It's easy not to take them into account when we look for a quick-fix magic bullet drug to give up the sauce, but I've known plenty who have failed on bac, for instance, because of those very points. I don't give a crap if baclofen (or any other drug for that matter) does nullify the physical or chemical need to drink, it won't, it can't stop an alcoholic from behaving alcoholically all on its own.

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

Hi life (shall we call you life btw it seems easiest) my doc has been giving me cocodamol 30/500 for a while now for pain, that is for migrains, and my back pain mostley also you know Im getting on now and getting all the aches and things that go with that:H, so when I saw him last he wanted to refere me to see a neuorologist which I told him I didnt want to, if there is nothing else then ok but I am sick of bloody hospitals right now so after looking in his book and checking on his pc he suggested did I want to try gabapentin!! DID I?? I had to sit and pretend I had never heard of it while he explained that originally blah blah siezures blah blah I wasnt going to tell him I had been buying it online before so Ive now got 300mg x 3 day, cool eh

The other new med Im on is serequel, in high doses they give it to peeps who are schitzophrenic so I was a bit worried at first thinking I would end up zombified, I am on a very low dose and anyway I have give it a go and I have to say its been about 2 months? now and the yucky se's seem to have worn off. When I take it tho I have to be either in bed or just about to go because it does pretty well knock me out and I also think I may be putting on a bit of weight with it so I will have to start doing something about that but really given the choice between being a chronic alcoholic which I was or badly depressed which I still can be and feeling fine but being a bit overweight I will go for the last one. I dont want to end up on tv as Britains fattest woman tho.

Theres so much more to not being an alcoholic than just not drinking:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

ifulovelife2;1308957 wrote: ... gabapentin (apart from my belief that it is a wonderdrug and I love it to bits) is that it was created with a kinda vague idea about its potential use. Since it didn't have much of a use as an anti-seizure medication for epilepsy, they've tried it out on every single type of pain relief and now use it really only for neuropathic pain.
Just fyi, because it makes me smirk, the pharma company that makes gabapentin had the pants sued off of 'em and lost! They were having drug reps peddle and push it to docs for unapproved applications (depression and anxiety) and got in BIG trouble. :H

Which is not to say that it doesn't work. I've not taken it, but boy has it made a big difference for some people around here. (It is not to be trifled with, though. It's a heavy duty med.)

ifulovelife2;1308960 wrote: ... stop an alcoholic from behaving alcoholically all on its own.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I knew it would just be a matter of time (minutes most likely) before you annoyed me.

Anyway...that smacks an awful lot like the ol' "we've got a moral and ethical problem" that makes us different in some way...
Life is tough, sorta. It's at least hard to navigate...And so learning how to do that when one doesn't have a way to disappear from it is a new thing. But just about everyone gets their knickers in a knot trying to figure out how to do that...

The only alcoholic behavior I suffered from was an inability to stop drinking against my will. There IS a pill that takes care of that. just sayin'

[Bruunhilde]

Me, myself and getting sober

ifulovelife2;1308960 wrote: Yep, yep and yep. IMO, no matter what method one uses to beat the beast, all those three apply. It's easy not to take them into account when we look for a quick-fix magic bullet drug to give up the sauce, but I've known plenty who have failed on bac, for instance, because of those very points. I don't give a crap if baclofen (or any other drug for that matter) does nullify the physical or chemical need to drink, it won't, it can't stop an alcoholic from behaving alcoholically all on its own.

I couldn't agree more, Life. Even when I have no cravings, I want to drink. Even when I don't want to drink, I want to drink. Even when drinking does NOTHING for me, I want to drink. Thus, antabuse is the answer to get me free for a while although its hella hard to do. I'm restarting today, again.

[ifulovelife2]

Me, myself and getting sober

spacebebe01;1308984 wrote: Hi life (shall we call you life btw it seems easiest) Well, I prefer ?Mr Big Bollocks the Stud-Muffin? but ?Lifer? will do.

spacebebe01;1308984 wrote: I've now got 300mg x 3 day, cool eh

Very cool indeed. 3 x 300mg is coincidentally what I found to be my optimum dosage for anxiety relief. Tolerance is the big bummer with 'pentin. If you take that dose daily, then pretty soon it'll stop being effective, whether one takes it for pain relief, as an anxiolytic or recreationally. :upset:

[ifulovelife2]

Me, myself and getting sober

Ne/Neva Eva;1308986 wrote: Just fyi, because it makes me smirk, the pharma company that makes gabapentin had the pants sued off of 'em and lost! They were having drug reps peddle and push it to docs for unapproved applications (depression and anxiety) and got in BIG trouble. :H And just fyi, because it makes me smirk, there are a gazillion companies that make gabapentin, not just one. The case you're referring to was against the makers of neurontin, whose salesmen were promoting the product for the purpose of combating depression and anxiety: off label applications. ?Peddle?? Seriously? So promoting a drug for an off-label purpose is peddling, should be prosecuted and causes you mirth? Would you describe one who promotes baclofen as an anti-alcoholic, when it is only approved as an anti-spasmodic, as a baclofen peddler? Neva, the words 'pot' and 'kettle' spring to mind. I accept your apology in advance.

Ne/Neva Eva;1308986 wrote: It is not to be trifled with, though. It's a heavy duty med. Name me one med which is not. 'Trifle' with ibuprofen, aspirin or indeed baclofen and you're gonna come a cropper.


Ne/Neva Eva;1308986 wrote: I've not taken it,

If you haven't taken it because you haven't needed to, then you know bugger all about it apart from what you managed to glean from a quick glance at Wikipedia.

Ne, seriously, stick to your own area of knowledge and experience. Oh, on second thoughts, perhaps not even that, if this is what you come up with on baclofen:
Ne/Neva Eva;1308986 wrote: The only alcoholic behavior I suffered from was an inability to stop drinking against my will. There IS a pill that takes care of that. just sayin'

So you switched and never touched another drink? Because that's what you're sugegsting baclofen did for you. Bulllllllllllshit! You continued to behave alcoholically on ocassions after your 'switch'. I don't care how many times you did it. I don't care how much you drank. The FACT is you drank beyond your will after your 'switch'. Now, why would you do that when you had the pill to prevent it from happening? Because most alcoholics continue to behave alcoholically after the relief of chemical dependence. Go ahead and argue against that if you must and I will call you na?ve, blinkered or an all-out fucking liar.

I'm sorry Ne, you know how much I care about you, but you are doing my people no favours whatsoever by pretending that baclofen is all an alkie needs......It ain't......It's just the start.

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

I will let you two chat and not interfere

What do you do about the tolerance have you any ideas because I noticed that when I was taking it before at 400mg a day?

I have said that my behaviour will take time to change, I have just had an example of that in the supermarket car park, my car was reversed into the bay so the trolley was in the bay next to me while I was putting my shopping in the boot, then a guy came and got into his car in the bay behind my trolley, did I move my trolley a few feet so he could just drive out easily? NO I had to be an arse and make him reverse out. then I realised what I was doing but it was too late to let him through and I felt like an right arsehole.

When I got home from the shop I thought I wanted a drink, I know not to do that and am now able to stop myself so I ate my tea first.. It has taken me years to change all this and to see that what I do affects the way I feel. I first went to the Alcohol treatment unit in a hospital about 7 - 8 years ago and from then I started changing my drinking habits, a lot of the time it seemed for the worse but it has eventually got me where I am now. I still have a long way to go.

:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

Yowza. I'm not sure how to take all that venom. Defensively? Suggest that I have never once said that I "switched" and that I suddenly didn't drink ever again. Nah. You were there through all that so I don't have to remind you.
Suggest that I did some other things too...Took my medication on time, and relatively regularly. Got weekly therapy. Exercised sort of regularly. Started meditation. Tried to eat right.
Nah. You know all that too...

And that at no time, not once, did I, "practice these principles in all my affairs." But none of that important crap kept me sober, or from drinking like a fish. It might have made it so that I was relatively content most of the time. (When not absolutely fucking elated with my newfound life!) What kept me from returning to drinking regularly, against my will, was a little pill. A lot of them. On a regular basis. Without a lot of variation...
But you know all that too.
So why the fuck are you attacking me? When I was being (I thought) lighthearted.

I was referring to neurontin, btw. And most pharma companies do NOT lose HUGE multimillion dollar lawsuits because almost all of them do just that...But this time it was bad. And yes, I think it's funny...ironic. And I happen to know quite a bit about gabapentin/neurontin because I looked into it a lot for a friend...She didn't take it, and she didn't make it.

The floor is yours, my friend. I can't take it from all sides, and when the fire is friendly, it's doubly wounding.

[windycitylady]

Me, myself and getting sober

I know where you're coming from, Space. I was first in inpatient more than 12 years ago now. But you and Ne are right. We need to view that time not as wasted time, but just how long it took us to get where we are now. And we're not done yet. Things will continue to get better, and we will continue to grow.
And I agree! Interesting conversation, Ne and Life. I do think that even after one is "cured" from baclofen that negative personality attributes and habits remain and must be consciously worked upon to change. In the book "The Addictive Personality" the author maintains that while a addictive personality exists, it doesn't cause a person to become an addict. It's a personality that one adopts after having been an addict. And it remains even after one has stopped using.

And what's all this about gabapentin tolerance? I was so thrilled to finally be feeling sane at 400mg 3 times a day, but lately my mood has taken a turn. How have you dealt with it, Life?

Finally, as always, it's such a joy to read your constantly evolving thoughts, Space. If I don't let you know as often as I should, I love being witness to your journey!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

sorry space. Back to you, sister.

[windycitylady]

Me, myself and getting sober

X posted, Ne.
I thought everyone was being lighthearted. Relax. Good friends can agree to disagree.

[spacebebe01]

Me, myself and getting sober

AW thanks for that windy

Ne Im intrigued why did you say "practice these principles in all my affairs" do we have an undercover 12 stepper here? :undercover:

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Me, myself and getting sober

spacebebe01;1309200 wrote:
Ne Im intrigued why did you say "practice these principles in all my affairs" do we have an undercover 12 stepper here? :undercover:
I am a recovering 12-stepper, space. Not to say that I don't use some of the tools that I learned in my many, many, many years of going to meetings and "working" the steps. But it's taken me a year--actually I'm still working on it--to unlearn some really detrimental stuff. Like that I have to be a super-human-good-person so that I don't succumb to alcohol. Or that the reason that I am (was?) an alcoholic is because (fill in the blank.) I'm not trying to start a brawl. I bring this up because of this post:

spacebebe01;1309136 wrote:
I have said that my behaviour will take time to change, I have just had an example of that in the supermarket car park, my car was reversed into the bay so the trolley was in the bay next to me while I was putting my shopping in the boot, then a guy came and got into his car in the bay behind my trolley, did I move my trolley a few feet so he could just drive out easily? NO I had to be an arse and make him reverse out. then I realised what I was doing but it was too late to let him through and I felt like an right arsehole.

When I got home from the shop I thought I wanted a drink, I know not to do that and am now able to stop myself so I ate my tea first.. It has taken me years to change all this and to see that what I do affects the way I feel. I first went to the Alcohol treatment unit in a hospital about 7 - 8 years ago and from then I started changing my drinking habits, a lot of the time it seemed for the worse but it has eventually got me where I am now. I still have a long way to go.

:l

Sometimes we are all right arseholes. I know an awful lot of them that are not alcoholic, or addicts of any kinds. Sheesh, a lot of the 'normal' people I know are really arsed-up and way less introspective, much more mean, than many boozers I know.
I was a total passive-aggressive biatch today. No regrets. The S.O.B. deserved it. Now, I am aware that I reap what I sow, and that by putting all that effort into being negative today, I will have repercussions (I could have, should have and wanted to do some other things that were much more productive for me in my own life. I didn't and now will be up very late getting them done, and half-assed at that.) However, the intended recipient of my...behavior was my landlord. He showed my apartment today to a prospective tenant. The place was a wreck, on purpose. It worked. If I shouldn't be happy about it, well, oops. I am. He has made some commitments that he's broken, and I am using it as leverage. But mainly it was (in my eyes) just desserts.

I don't have to make amends for that to not drink tonight. It just makes me bitchy, and I'd like to be a better person than that.
Maybe tomorrow.

When I learned how to separate my bad decisions, or bad thoughts, from the idea that I had to feel so badly (for being human) that I needed to drink about it and hide and feel shame, I got even MORE free...

Everyone can be an arse. And we all deserve to do that and not feel ashamed about it. in my very, very humble opinion. (in this instance anyway.)

Peace out peeps.