Non-SSRI antidepressants

[LibraryGirl]

I know there is a thread somewhere about this. I can't seem to locate it, however. Putting SSRI in the search box pulls up way too many threads. Could someone point me to the thread(s) that specifically go over non-traditional antidepressants? If you recommend "natural" over synthetic AD's, I'd like that information as well. And, how long it took to get relief, etc.

I have taken Paxil, briefly, but didn't care for the instant zombie like effect, and the complete lack of interest in sex. I took Zoloft too, but had terrible side effects, like tremendous weight gain...Then I took Lexapro for a long time and tolerated it pretty well, but no real noticeable gains in my mood, although I was drinking heavily.

The fact is, I want something that is SE free, if at all possible. However, I don't want to wait months and months for relief, nor do I want something that is so negligible in it's benefits you wouldn't hardly notice you were taking it.

Is there any help out there for me?

[spacebebe01]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Antidepressants that work, without causing bad se's. Ive been looking and hoping for something like this for years. Never found anything tho or even come close but Im hoping you do get replies on here LG they will certainly be worth reading.

[Otter]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

LibraryGirl;1341002 wrote: I know there is a thread somewhere about this. I can't seem to locate it, however. Putting SSRI in the search box pulls up way too many threads. Could someone point me to the thread(s) that specifically go over non-traditional antidepressants? If you recommend "natural" over synthetic AD's, I'd like that information as well. And, how long it took to get relief, etc.

I have taken Paxil, briefly, but didn't care for the instant zombie like effect, and the complete lack of interest in sex. I took Zoloft too, but had terrible side effects, like tremendous weight gain...Then I took Lexapro for a long time and tolerated it pretty well, but no real noticeable gains in my mood, although I was drinking heavily.

The fact is, I want something that is SE free, if at all possible. However, I don't want to wait months and months for relief, nor do I want something that is so negligible in it's benefits you wouldn't hardly notice you were taking it.

Is there any help out there for me?

I would order L-Tryptophan and melatonin online.

I am not a doctor. SSRI's are what are called "first generation" anti depressants because they have been marketed for so many years. There are now second generation and even third generation anti depressants. SSRI's act by stopping absorbtion of serotonin into the cells of your body, thus keeping it in your blood and keeping your brain "happy". But they don't work if you have no serotonin in your system. A newer generation of anti depressants are SNRI's which do much the same but with norepinephrine.

Then there are newer antidepressants like Mirtazapine which work in an entirely different way. It is a functional "indirect agonist" of the 5-HT1A receptor. Increased activation of the central 5-HT1A receptor is thought to be a major mediator of efficacy of most antidepressant drugs. Unlike most conventional antidepressants, however, at clinically used doses mirtazapine has no appreciable affinity for the serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine transporters and thus lacks any significant effects as a reuptake inhibitor of these neurotransmitters, nor does it have any significant inhibitory effects on monoamine oxidase.

One benefit of it is that it does not affect libido.

Then there is a third generation antidepressant which is just tryptophan and is marketed as Optimax. This converts into serotonin and makes you "happy".

Of course, you can buy L-Tryptophan on-line quite cheaply through people like Biovea and also Melotonin which is good for sleep. You have to take L-Tryptophan with a carbohydrate drink and Vitamin Bs of some sort. I am no expert so don't quote me.

Then, you have Baclofen which also acts as a major anxiolytic which is often very helpful with "depression" which some say is the same as depression. Of course, it has side effects but my experience of using it both in small doses, 10mg at a time, and up to 100mg a day and more, is that it is hugely effective and lifts anxiety type depression like nothing else.

There have been some serious concerns about SSRI's and there involvement in incidents of suicided and violence and fluoxetine is listed as one of the drugs most commonly associated with violence. It creates problems on withdrawal including severe depression.

My choice would be l-tryptophan and melatonin for minor depression, mirtazapine for more serious depression and Baclofen for severe depression which nothing else touches.

I would stay away from SSRI's and SNRI's simply because they don't actually add anything to your system but rely on what you have which may be not enough and SSRI's have a bad rap.

There is also a site called "Potatos not Prozac". It advocates eating a potato before bed each night, I think. I haven't read the book but I tried it and I slept through the night for the first time in years. I think good sleep is essential to good mental health.

[spacebebe01]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

It is hard to say without knowing how depression affects you, that why you need a doctor or psychiatrist if the depression is bad enough to significantly affect your everyday life.

I have not taken the "natural" remidies, because I have been taking antidepressants for so long and a lot of these things eg L tryptophan, 5 htp, st john's wort cant be taken with ssri's because of the danger of causing seretonin syndrome, so I dont know anything about them apart form taking st johns wort for a few months around 10 years ago when I came off the ssri's. Because I had just bought a bottle of the shelf in the chemist it had no leaflet that would come with a med, so no info about se's, I went on holiday to Spain and a few days in discovered one of the se's was sun sensitivity, I only discovered this because I was covered in big red itchy, sore lumps and had to see a doctor who told me to stay out of the sun, some Spanish holiday that was

I have taken Mirtazapine in the past and had terrible weight gain with it, I mean worse than with any other med I have taken. And I know this has happened for others as well, so while this may work for you and I dont want to put anyone off trying things if weight is a problem for you in the first place then you would have to talk to your doc about it and I think watch it closely.

I would assume baclofen might work if the depression is linked to anxiety, also at a low dose that doesnt cause the sleepiness, if tiredness is an issue with your depression.

I am not telling you the se's I experienced to try and put anyone off, I just wish I had been informed about them before I started taking them.

So I am still looking and have to stay hopeful that I will eventually find something that works with se's that I can deal with. I now think that if anything is going to be effective there is some payoff with the se's its just that some are more ok for some people than others. ie, if you are a very thin person whose problem is putting on weight then mirtazapine may well be perfect.

[joethelion]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

I`m by far no expert, and I do believe any such medicine should only be taken under doctor`s supervision, but I can say I benefited a lot from a different type of antidepressant, called stablon (tianeptine sodium), although it`s a French medicine and I think it`s not available in the UK or the US. I had zero side effects with it, and it helps my mood a lot, considering the serious problems I`m facing right now. My doctor told me it`s not a very heavy medicine, and can be used for prolonged periods of time without any problems.

St.John`s wort is very nice, and harmless but I also know you can not use it together with most antidepressants, and although there are some studies proving its effectiveness I personally don`t think it helped me as much as stablon for example (I used it for a long time before). Also you have to be careful with sun, as it makes the skin very sensitive to sunlight. In any case, I think if you`re not using anything else it`s worth a try.

Finally baclofen is helping against anxiety (we`re at 80mgs), and it`s told to help against anxiety induced depression, but don`t know much about that. At least with that you`ll definitely get a good sleep, that`s for sure.

[windycitylady]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Gabapentin! Gabapentin! I take 1200mg/ day in 3 doses, and it has worked as well or better than any other AD I've taken. No side effects, works immediately., like within 20 minutes. In fact, the only downside may be that it works quickly and leaves quickly. I try to take my doses no more than 6 hours apart. If I wait too long, I definitely feel it. I start getting weepy and tantrumy.
Baclofen helped my anxiety at a low dose and had no impact on depression. At a high dose, my anxiety was worse as was my depression. Tryptophan and St. John's Wort did not have noticable effects on my depression.
Let us kniw what you decide to do and how it works out for you. Best of luck!

[LibraryGirl]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

I'm going to try this windy. Can I get it from the health food store, and is the dosage you're taking the best one? Can you get a higher dose pill that doesn't require multiple doses throughout the day? I can't see me maintaining a three-a-day pill schedule, no matter how useful. I could change though, I don't know.

[MusiciansMallet]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Hey Otter! Some good info, but i do have some feedback...

Otter;1341289 wrote: Then there are newer antidepressants like Mirtazapine which work in an entirely different way. It is a functional "indirect agonist" of the 5-HT1A receptor. Increased activation of the central 5-HT1A receptor is thought to be a major mediator of efficacy of most antidepressant drugs. Unlike most conventional antidepressants, however, at clinically used doses mirtazapine has no appreciable affinity for the serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine transporters and thus lacks any significant effects as a reuptake inhibitor of these neurotransmitters, nor does it have any significant inhibitory effects on monoamine oxidase.Mirtazapine does have appreciable affinity for serotonin, 5-HT receptor is the the serotonin receptor ..be careful using wikipedia! The article on mirtazapine is extremely flawed.. it accurately states its binding affinity (as an antagonist) at 5-HT (serotonin) subunit receptors... yet, then it states it has no appreciable binding affinity! Odd

I am not a doctor. SSRI's are what are called "first generation" anti depressants because they have been marketed for so many years. There are now second generation and even third generation anti depressants.I'm not doctor either ..but I do have a few years of pre-pharm schooling under miy my belt some years back... SSRIs are NOT 1st generation- i think you have it the other way around. MAOIs are first generation, they've been around the longest; along w/ mood stabilizers like lithium. Then came tricyclics (referring to as either 1st or 2nd generation).. THEN came SSRIs.

SSRI's act by stopping absorbtion of serotonin into the cells of your body, thus keeping it in your blood and keeping your brain "happy". But they don't work if you have no serotonin in your system. A newer generation of anti depressants are SNRI's which do much the same but with norepinephrine.

SSRIs (along with almost every single other antidepressant) act by STOPPING neurons from "re-uptaking" serotonin OUT of the synapsis in the brain, meaning, MORE serotonin levels are increased (although conversely, some antidepressants are ANTAGONISTS for subunits of serotonin--although not ALL serotonin receptors--needless to say, the direct relationship between serotonin & depression is poorly understood!) SSRIs are just "selective" to serotonin (compared to all other antidepressants) in that they *only* effect serotonin neurological levels to a significant degree... but this all occurs in the brain; not the blood.

My choice would be l-tryptophan and melatonin for minor depression

Melatonin doesn't act on serotonin; it is highly selective *only* for melatonin receptors, it doesn't really impact depression. Although, there are some VERY new studies linking sleep disorders to depression & mood disorders (such as you referenced at the end of your post). So, this could be the only possible link I could forsee? And l-tryptophan may be effective, but studies on depression are sparse & not as wide spread (surprise surprise! Its not marketable like prozac, so big PHRMA & its clients can't charge butt-loads of cash for your Rx.. therefore, no money pumped into studying it!)- plus it doesn't readily pass the blood-brain-barrier: 5-HTP is a better alternative in regards to dietary supplements, it is a metabolite of l-tryptophan & readily crosses the blood-brain-barrier... at least IMO!

I would stay away from SSRI's and SNRI's simply because they don't actually add anything to your system but rely on what you have which may be not enough and SSRI's have a bad rap.

I agree w/ staying away from SSRIs & SNRIs if you can.. but, l-trypt acts in a much similar way (as do all other antidepressants- they work w/ what you already have). Drugs that are actually serotonin RELEASERS are.. umm.. methamphetamine, MDMA, cocaine (to a lesser degree).. which i'd stay away from, especially for depression heh..


~~~~~


Anyway. To the original poster:
As Otter pointed out- Mirtazapine is a promising drug--but its highly selective at sub-serotonergic receptors (particularly the 2, 3, and 7 sub serotonin receptors) AND is an *inverse agonist/antagonist* at adrenergic receptors (probably why it helps w/ hypertension & anxiety)- so it may not be as effective in treating some symptoms of depression or other disease once in wide-spread use & more information can accumulate. Although preliminary studies show it is promising & relatively more effective than SSRIs & SNRIs.

I am somewhat new to these forums, so i can't point you anywhere in particular. But, some second-line antidepressants that are used are SARIs (selective ANTAGONIST reuptake inhibitors- like trazadone; these drugs are selective antagonists at sub-serotonin sites, but also act as general reuptake inhibitors, and thus increases the levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, & serotonin- except at the subunits of serotonin where they're antagonists), tricyclics (although may cause drowsiness), reboxetine, bupropion, and mianserin are all atypicals and/or tetracyclics; SNRIs (selective *norepinephrine* reuptake inhibitors- of which includes effexor & pristiq, pristiq is actually an active metabolite of effexor); and finally there are novel antidepressants that exert serotonergic & norepinephrine action indirectly- these include drugs such opioids (buprenorphine & tramadol are being investigated for this), some GABAergic drugs that exert mood stabilizing effects (like gabapentin), anticonvulsants (especially valproic acid, sodium valproate, & valproate semisodium), & general/older moods-stabilizers usually relegated to treatment of more severe psychiatric disorders (like Lithium).

Generally speaking, however, tetracyclics, tricyclics, mood-stabilizers, & SARIs will cause more side effects, but are more broadly effective than SSRIs since they are less selective.. the newer ones, SNRIs, & the atypicals like bupropion will cause less side-effects (generally, although not always a given), but you may have to bounce around between medications to find the right one to specifically treat the symptoms most bothering you.

[MusiciansMallet]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

LibraryGirl;1341828 wrote: I'm going to try this windy. Can I get it from the health food store, and is the dosage you're taking the best one? Can you get a higher dose pill that doesn't require multiple doses throughout the day? I can't see me maintaining a three-a-day pill schedule, no matter how useful. I could change though, I don't know.

Gabapentin, as i mentioned in my post above, is being investigated as a general mood stabilizer.. although, everyone reacts differently. It may be of some help.

But no, it is not available at a health food store. It isn't a dietary supplement, it is prescription only... although it isn't scheduled. There are a few US based, online pharmacies/vendors that offer it, but its somewhat expensive (international pharmacies offer it at lower prices, but I have not used them for this). I would use care self-medicating! Try seeing your doctor, gabapentin is a very commonly prescribed drug.

[StuckinLA]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Hey Windy--

Were you taking Gabapentin while on HDB, or just low doses? Did it help with the sleeping/sleep anxiety at all?

Thanks!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Hi, LG!

I can't really weigh in on the AD discussion, except to reiterate what it looks like you already know. SSRIs are...complicated. I wouldn't take one. At all. Ever.
Wellbutrin is not an SSRI and I'm surprised that it hasn't come up yet. It's been around a long time, so there is plenty of information about it and it doesn't seem to be...bad. It has SEs, but they're not really life altering (imho. but it's all relative, right? lol)
One of my closest friends takes a very low dose of a new AD that's not an SSRI. It has really helped with her low-level, situational depression. (Divorce, etc.) She's been on it for more than a year and finds it very tolerable. I'll try to catch her to ask, but your doctor would likely know it off the bat.

Gabapentin is a prescription drug. Neurontin is another name. It's not the herbal GABA. (Not even close!) It's prescribed for depression off-label still. But frankly, that would be the one I go with were I to go the AD route.

Forgive if the following suggestion is something you've already thought about. I am actually a big fan of NOT taking medications (ironic, I know) when other things can make the difference. This may sound trite, but regular, rigorous exercise has proved (scientifically and anecdotally) more effective than ADs. I don't know anything about where you are mentally, in sobriety, or in 3D. It may not be enough, or what you're looking for, but it may be a really good option, too. It's almost immediate! It's inexpensive! You've got to do it every day, but you'd have to take a pill everyday...

If you're going to do it, I'd highly recommend looking up Lo0p's info here, or finding an actual expert, and not just your run of the mill fitness trainer type. I didn't get any benefits--physical or mental--until I stopped looking to the young 'un who saw a middle aged paunchy woman and started following the advice of serious exercise gurus. Those same teenyboppers don't look at me the same way anymore.

I started with Tom Venuto. He rocks.

Hope you feel better soon, LG! And continued congrats...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Musician's Mallet weighed in while I was typing.

He, um, knows the chemical stuff...:H It overwhelms me a little bit, but is interesting if you want to dissect all the SSRI vs. SNRI vs. tricyclic stuff. I tried. Then I gave up and decided to exercise more. (To varying effect. I think I could use an AD, maybe. not sure. Anyway!!!)

I think my friend is taking Mirtazapine.

[MusiciansMallet]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

Ne/Neva Eva;1341848 wrote: Musician's Mallet weighed in while I was typing.

He, um, knows the chemical stuff...:H It overwhelms me a little bit, but is interesting if you want to dissect all the SSRI vs. SNRI vs. tricyclic stuff. I tried. Then I gave up and decided to exercise more.

:H :H :H you know it! Maybe I should do the same.. exercise & such? heh... although i don't really need it

Anyway, yea, as i pointed out in my post below my novel-of a post earlier... gabapentin isn't available as a dietary supplement; its Rx only. BUT... it isn't scheduled, & it has about the same availability, perhaps a bit more, of baclofen via US online pharmacies/vendors (usually available at the same sites that offer baclofen). I don't know about IOPs (err, international online pharmacies.. if that jargon isn't used here), since i don't use international pharmacies.

Although i'd recommend gabapentin over SSRIs anyday.. at the same time, the OPer stated she (assuming "she" by the avatar name..) didn't like the "zombie" feeling of SSRIs.. while i've never experienced this on many different ADs; i have experienced a somewhat "zombie" effect on gabapentin, so one would assume they'd get this feeling too?

Plus, there HAS to be some interaction between baclofen, a GABA-b agonist, & gabapentin one would assume? Even though gabapentin does not work on GABA in the same way (well, actually, its not even know how or if it interacts w/ GABA); it rather interacts w/ calcium channels & is an analogue of the GABA neurotransmitter (all of which is poorly understood... yet, NO MATTER; dispersed to the masses; shirt first ask questions later eh? Good thing it turned out to be a beneficial drug..). But, at least from my subjective experiences; I found a VERY VERY similar effect between gabapentin & baclofen (except w/ less side effects w/ the gabapentin, but no good for helping w/ addictive behavior)

....I'm curious if anyone has any experience combining them? (that is, if the poster is on baclofen..?)

[StuckinLA]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

MM--

It is all poorly understood, isn't it? Even less by folks who don't yet know they have a reason to learn about it all.

The head-doctor I met with wanted me to get off bac entirely so he could throw me on boatloads of Gabapentin. His reasoning was it's "the same thing" w/o the side effects. Ah, yes, I said to him, you are correct. They are both GABAish things, but it's that little difference that makes all the difference...

I do need to get off my arse and send ifullovelife that PM. I believe s/he (not sure) does HDB and Gabapentin.

[Otter]

Non-SSRI antidepressants

I think the issue here is what works in alcoholism. I think it is important to look at what one is trying to achieve in relation to brain function, stopping reuptake or adding something. The medications I have seen coming up here and elsewhere in combination with baclofen seem to be mirtazapine, gabapentin and topirimate.

I mentioned Melatonin because it aids sleep which I see as essential to a healthy life but Baclofen works as well although it does have side effects.

I would recommend a read of Seven Weeks to Sobriety by Joan Larson, who recommends tryptophan, not 5-HTP, melotonin, vitamins, then, for anxiety, Gaba, which, of course, she sells at huge prices...

If one can avoid drugs it is always best.

I have to amend this because I don't know of anyone combining baclofen with Gabapentin.

I am now of the view that SlipperyPete, wherever he is, discovered the answer to all this. I like to think he has taken his cure and is living happily in a happy glade somewhere in the Emerald State. Baclofen to treat anxiety, good food, movement, sunshine and love, to cure alcoholism. Says it all really. Just try finding it though.