Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

[drb120]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

I never told any bs. Just the plain truth. I have shared my story. Baclofen made me extremely outgoing, witty, and charming. I built tolerance and needed more to achieve the desired effect. I went out of the country and forgot it at home. Had severe insomnia and anxiety and fatigue. I realized I needed to stop taking more and at least bring it down to consistant level. Ever since I have been struggling. The goal is to titrate back down. I guess I tried too fast. Perhaps that is what you mean by me not listening?

In any case I am very grateful for the help I did get. And my struggle is far from over. I just hope others don't read the forum like I did, think baclofen is a miracle, and totally safe and easy to self administer, and then wind up like me.

Alcoholics as a group are not that responsible at self medicating. So I'm not sure what you mean by lay off the other stuff.

I understand I am not typical, but we have seen enough similar stories if you do a simple google search, or search this forum, to realize this is kind of dangerous stuff.

[ignominious]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

Ne/Neva Eva;1528697 wrote: It is erroneous and frankly insulting

.... that the title of this thread has not been changed to:

"Baclofen causes physical dependence"

and that you can continue to take the holier than thou high ground when someone makes a post that you disagree with.

[RedThread12]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

I suggest everyone disregard drb120

at least until he is "better," under the care of his physician. His story has very little to do with baclofen as a means to quit drinking against one's will, and much more to do with underlying psychological issues AND additive bio-chemical compound mis-use for years.

Sorry, drb120, if this offends you. I have been on this board for 4 years. I have seen and been a part of some of the most incredible, heart-wrenching, heart-warming stories of people simply trying to save their lives . . . and followed through in many ways not seen here. As you well know from the time I've spent with you over the past months. Even after being ridiculed and disregarded, I still responded to your PM when your own best idea was suicide.

The per cent age of suffering alcoholics who want to attempt to use baclofen to come out from under the lash of drinking against one's will, who have your additive factors that you did not disclose and chose to deal with as if you have no brain, is infinitesimal, in my opinion.

So please . . . refrain from suggesting that your experience has anything at all even remotely similar to someone who finds MWO and is serious about ending their alcoholism.

Just get well, okay?

You've got a doctor. Leave us alone. I know your story. I know you think it's an important contribution. I beg to differ.Your posts are totally misleading. You disclose nothing about your long term abuse of other compounds, nor your total unwillingness to follow suggestions. I, personally, consider the time and effort you have asked from me, as well as other MWO members, abusive. And here you are again, abusing us further by TOTALLY misrepresenting the conditions under which you used and mis-used baclofen. This Is. Not. Helpful. or even applicable for the great majority of people who are drinking against their will.These posts contain the same kind of un-truths and misrepresentations you have told me since, ummm . . . March. I am surprised by how surprised I am that you are back here, misleading more people and taking more valuable time. The word "hubris" comes to mind.

That. Is. All.
RedThread12

[drb120]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

You mean hgh? Doc thinks has absolutely nothing to do with baclofen withdrawal. It is not hubris. It is a concern for others. I was not even a bad alcoholic. I had a lot of anxiety and found myself drinking more wine than I wanted every night. Sometimes I would take a night or two off even. Now, as you have said, I am contemplating suicide.

You may be right. My use of human growth hormone may be the real cause. But search mania and Baclofen. What about all those?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

Look, drb. You are not well. I don't think anyone should do or say anything until you are better. We can debate the finer points of what has happened then. In the meantime, the only thing that matters is that you get well.

Please know that I believe that what happened to you regarding baclofen is an excellent cautionary tale. It is not wise or reasonable for people to increase or decrease baclofen dramatically in short periods of time. I write this repeatedly. Some people read it and understand, some people don't. There isn't anything I can do about the people who, like you, decide to do this. Nor about the ones who don't spend a lot of time reading the information here and so don't know that it can result in serious stuff.

In the meantime, I also want you to know that your perspective is perhaps not a legitimate reflection of what's going on. That is no surprise, right? It's hard to have perspective when everything is really, really bad. Just as it's hard to have perspective when hypomania is involved.

That doesn't make it okay to come on here and share information that may keep other people from getting well. And I think all of us (the old timers who spend a lot of time here) get very tired of being accused of white-washing information. It would take anyone about 30 minutes of reading here to see that baclofen is a medication that like all medications should not be trifled with. It also does something no other medication has ever done. Ever.
It's all about perspective, isn't it? I know I'd make the same choice again. I know you probably wouldn't. Fair enough. Two different perspectives.

Just take good care of yourself. I hope you will take that to heart and focus on that.

[terryk]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

drb120;1529042 wrote: You mean hgh? Doc thinks has absolutely nothing to do with baclofen withdrawal. It is not hubris. It is a concern for others. I was not even a bad alcoholic. I had a lot of anxiety and found myself drinking more wine than I wanted every night. Sometimes I would take a night or two off even. Now, as you have said, I am contemplating suicide.

You may be right. My use of human growth hormone may be the real cause. But search mania and Baclofen. What about all those?
I experienced hypomania during my titration to indifference at 280 (at around 150mg/day), and have read several similar reports of transient hypomania/mania here before.

There's evidence that baclofen can exacerbate/cause mania in people with pre-existing mood disorders:

From https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1223158

terryk;1223158 wrote: Phenylethylamine-like properties of baclo... [Neuropsychobiology. 1983] - PubMed - NCBI

From the full-text: Baclofen is postulated to inhibit dopamine transmission, be an antagonist of Substance P, and an agonist of PEA. Of 10 patients in the study 5 were schizophrenic, 4 were bipolar, 1 organic mental disorder. Baclofen caused mania and irritability in 2 of the bipolar patients (each respectively), and varied amounts of irritability, assaultiveness, and hallucinations in 4 of the schizophrenic patients.

-tk

[drb120]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

Look ne/neva/eva, you have almost 5000 posts on this forum. You should practically be getting paid by now. If only most aloholics were well like you. Well educated, well adjusted, and genuinely concerned for others well being. Unfortunately, most of us are not well. I am trying with all my strength to recover. I had a pretty enviable life. But you are being condescending. I think a permanent disclaimer thread at the top of the forum should be in order really. A "sticky" if you will.

[JDizzle]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

It's such a shame that this stuff is postered all over this forum and it is everyone's fault. Is bac additive, does it cause physical dependence, what is a troll (totally not referring to anyone with that). It seems a lot of people take it upon themselves to be the saviors of baclofen. Baclofen does not need a savior. In reality, the more that you type out the word Baclofen, the word addictive, the word dependence, the word withdrawal... the more searchable you are making it for Google. All of this unnecessary defense of Baclofen only keeps these threads alive and forces those of us who dont care about them to keep wading through them and checking in from time to time to see who totally got the last word this time. There is NEVER going to be a winning last word and we should just open a stubbornness thread. At least that would be what it really is and others could get involved with their personal stories of being stubborn. I have 12,335,834,775,335,909,444,847 stories I could share of my own. If you really want these stories to not ruin someone's life that is looking for help (which is a HUGE and unrealistic burden to put on yourself btw), then stop keeping these alive with your last words. If someone makes it to the landing page of the forum through search (highly unlikely), it is littered with these posts. But, 90% of the time, they are making it to these precise threads because you are making it more searchable. Ok, I am going to drop off again and watch you all argue from afar. Is it addictive, does it cause dependence... I really dont give a shit. It doesnt seem so to me and has stopped me from drinking. Also, if someone really needs help and they come here and read one thread and decide... oh man this is not for me... they're stupid. If you are going to base a medical decision on one internet forum thread, just go drink. I knew when I got serious about my searches, that I had to get a huge bucket of information from forums because I was gathering information from alcoholic personalities. I had to get a very large data sample and find the median. My searches always ended up at baclofen4alcoholism. That was more dangerous for me than anything about it being addictive (what alcoholic cares about that in the first place). I thought the only thing I can find is some quack doctor somewhere that wants my money and probably knows nothing about this. That may be a good site, I don't know, that is just how I felt when I landed on that page.

[drb120]

Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

There is a lot of truth in that pist jdizzle. But most alcoholics are not scientists or stats guys. We dont get a large dataset and find a median. We look for a shortcut. A pill. And if we believe you can take a ton and not get addicted it becomes very appealing. Then we are really rolling the dice with our gaba systems. Much of the advice I got was take benzos. Now we introduce more problems. Maybe baclofen is only for high IQ scientist types with no other psych issues other than alcoholism. I just think it is dangerous to expect people to fit that bill.