Where are the moderators??

[livingfree]

Where are the moderators??

Points well taken Out. I believe with all of my heart that moderation is absolutely possible for anyone whom chooses. I personally think each person has to look at their personality from a compulsive perspective. Such as ... in tendencies to 'overeat', 'over spend $,' 'anger issues (temperment)' , etc. If a person has a fair amount of control in other areas of their lives, moderating is just a matter of "forming a new habit". If a person tends to be compulsive or even impulsive at their nature - that is when moderating is actually harder than abstaining. But is it still possible? Yes - I think all things are possible!

As far as support goes - as you express yourself in the above post - you sound like a very committed, supportive and determined person. I appreciate that in a person. I also would like to extend my personal support to you and anyone who moderates or desires to moderate. I really do think we learn a lot from each other. Moders can help abstainers and like wise. It's just a matter of laying out some ground rules, which you have done here. If we know how we can support each other - we all can achieve our goals with greater success. If we feel that we have to hide out in our "mod" or "Ab" corners, we miss out on some great lessons from the other side.

So - with that - I hope you stop in the Ab's areas to offer support and give your story more. I really think we all can work together here. Thanks Out.

[Ask For Help]

Where are the moderators??

This is really a nice conversation.

Thanks Out for expressing your sentiments; I too share a wish for more welcoming and support for modders, especially w/o judgements.

. . .and Thanks Livingfree for your supportive and thoughtful response. I have learned SO MUCH about managing alcohol from the AF threads . . . really really helpful strategies and life views and how remarkably supportive this MWO group can be! And I think there is much to share from the modding experience . . . so thanks for the welcome to share that.

I think this website would be even greater than it already is if most of the folks on this site could get to the place you two have gotten.

Today, I'll just savor this small step forward.
Fondly,

Ask

[Eve11]

Where are the moderators??

To Ask for Help
Regarding your statement about re-awakening the thread because Trixie Track pulled back, as you stated "She is a more rare visitor these days, but pulled back because she felt she had met her goals and was ready to move forward in her life of moderating."

Whoa Silver!!! If that's true, that's scary. Goals can't be met with moderating where you can think you don't need the program anymore. That's like going to AA (like I did for 7 years) and then deciding not to go anymore because I thought I had conquered it! I guess I thought I had met my goals. I had quit for 7 years and started to believe that if I could abstain for 7 years I didn't need the support of the people anymore.

Guess what happened without the support, without hearing the new stories that reminded me of who I was really was when I drank? I easily started drinking again. I actually remember the first night I drank again I drank too much and told the friend I had gone out with what a loser her husband was. He really was a loser but in a sober state I never would have shared those feelings! I was immediately right back to being a girl with a drinking problem. All because it was too easy to get the stinkin' thinkin' without the support. Most of you know what that is. You delude yourself that you didn't drink that bad, other people are worse than you ever were, etc. And before you know it you're having that one drink that leads to two...

Hope TrixieTrax never quits. I need her as much as she needs me. We will always need the support of people who walk the same walk.

I just believe it's vital to stay in the program for a lifetime - if success happens - I can be there for others. But to pull away - just makes it easier to slip back into drinking to excess.

Moderating is for life - and we need the support for life - just like AF folks.

[CS04]

Where are the moderators??

Hi All,
I did not take offense to anyone's comments, so I hope that no one else would either.

Out, I like your tips/specific strategies on moderating. Thank you.

Thanks,
CS

[Sunbeam]

Where are the moderators??

MWO has been a godsend to me. The commmunity is great at welcoming newcomers with drinking troubles. That recommendation for 30 AF days is pretty well accepted by most. After that, we each begin to identify our own path. The path might be less than ideal, because it takes awhile to become honest and realistic with ourselves. As we find our path, we value our path above others. This often comes through as judgement against other paths. Sometimes the judgement is solely in the interpretation.

I think this process is something to keep in mind when we hear disagreement within threads, including this one.

[out]

Where are the moderators??

Very wise sunbeam...

and kind. I do think however that we do need to be thoughtful about where we post "the valuing of our path over others". And I am going to speculate about somethings here with the knowing that I could be wrong, but...

The bad news is that (while hard numbers are hard to come by) it has been documented that most problematic drinkers (the studies I have read are from those who have been in AA for at least a year), about 92% fail, meaning they return to their same drinking habits in long term follow up. (And I am only going to post this once, because while it is true I don't think it is helpful or encouraging to continue to post the high failure rates of our efforts repeatedly in lots of threads, (there is a parallel here to what I was saying earlier about folks continually posting their failure at moderation in a area where people are seeking advise and encouragement to meet their goals at moderation).

Anyway of the 8% remaining, some were abstaining and some were moderating, meaning drinking in a way that was not unhealthy or interfering with the persons life. The percetage of people in this group who were modding or abstaining was exactly 50% each.

If you want the actual study and the political jocking that went on to discredit it and the controlled drinking advocates, please look up Stanton Peele and look at the articles on his website.

Given this info and many other studies I have read this 50/50 number of those who are able to change their drinking seems to hold true, so I am concerned sometimes that many people who come here who want to mod, get put off or discouraged by loads of people saying that hardly anyone can moderate. That is true, but hardly anyone can abstain either, at least all the time, but I'm not going to keep posting that in an abstention thread, because well, it's just not helpful. I think it is important to understand that in the long run, just as many people are likely to mod as to abstain, even if the number of people are unevenly stacked here at MWO.

I think it is important to support the people who want to/ are moderating without judging by your own standards. There was someone who posted earlier in response to a sincere request to talk about whether others have experinced the same thing regarding a lapse in moderate behavior, in a way that was an oppertunity to discuss our slips and help with strategies, "that if you can't moderate all the time then you're not a moderate drinker". Pardon me, but who the f... has a right to make such a blanket statement about what kind of a drinker someone is or is capable of being based on the revelation of a slip up? I do take offense to these things being posted here and I have no idea, nor do I care whether the person who posted it mods or abstains or neither. Whether in the rest of my life I wind up modding or abstaining, I don't think I would tell anyone repeatedly what I couldn't do, unless I was doing it to tell myself because I felt threatened. If someone feels threatened by the idea of moderation, they don't want to mess with the idea because they are afraid of losing their sobriety or whatever, don't come here, don't read the moderation posts if they upset you and you feel complelled to post your judgement or failure to moderate and by here I mean the moderation areas, not MWO. I want to know people, their process, their journey, their stories, what worked for them what didn't whether they ab or mod, there are great and interesting people here and there are loads of places for all of it at MWO, but if you post here it leaves 50% of us who are or will be sucessful in changing our drinking habits with a bad taste and I think we often leave. I know this, because I have talked to other modders who are sick of it and respond in the same way I do, some of them leave, so it needs to be said publically. In this thread I have done my best to be honest about my thoughts and feelings in a way I haven't before, because I am just in a place where I think I can't take look at this crappola anymore without saying something. It sends a lot of people packing, people who could be helpful to me and others in this area.

That said, I will be leaving for a while, due to a perceived lack of support of moderaters here. Just for now. I value and care about the community here and will come back, but I need a break and need to spend time focusing on sites and with books and people who are wholeheartedly in support of my goals, who tell me they believe in what I am trying to accomplish and who remind me that I can put limits on my use as I already do, as we all already do or else we would all be in the gutter. The limits are just a matter of degree.

I leace you with a book recommendation, If anyone is trying to Mod or abstain for that matter...Please read "Over the Influence" by Pat Denning. It is a breath of fresh air in a judgement ridden addictions treatment world.

Peace out.. it'll be a while, so take care of yourselves.

[nancy]

Where are the moderators??

Hi Out

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. It may be that the two populations are not compatible in some ways because everyone with alcoholism would love to just have one or two but many are incapable of doing that. Perhaps they can with a drug like Topa that makes you dopey and is now linked with birth defects! Yikes. Having talk encouraging moderating is not constructive for those who need to be abstinent. It's like egging people on to something that could kill them.

And insisting on abstinence only is not encouraging for those who truly want to moderate. It's like having uninvited Jehovah's Witnesses at the door.

As you said slips are part of the process whether you go for abstinence or moderation. You are right that this abstience talk can get very dogmatic but in fairness, part of it is that the negative consequences of thinking you can moderate and failing are really high, like death, like spousal abuse, DUIs etc, job loss,. I suppose the rationale is better safe than sorry. I really do believe that some can change behavior, viewing it like an eating disorder or gambling addiction. Though I don't know how high their success rates are either to be honest.

I always thought harm reduction was a better term than moderation anyway.

Anyway, I value your presence here. I advise you to just skip around and find things you like.

[DeeBee]

Where are the moderators??

I have been watching and reading this thread with interest.

When i joined MWO my goal was to mod. Which I did sucessfully for 3 months. I then jumped on the AF bandwagon for the first time in my adult life, with the intention to do 30 days. Well 30 days have come and gone and I'm still AF. I do still think of myself as a modder but I just don't know if I belong on the mod thread at the moment as I am enjoying AF life too much. So I'm kinda stuck in the middle to be honest - not sure where I belong?

I have really appreciated what has been said on this thread though, a lot of it makes sense to me and yes I do agree that modders don't seem to get as much support - we are always being reminded about someone tried it only to find out the hard way that they couldn't mod. Although I appreciate comments like that as it reminds me how easy it is to slip back into my old ways I do think more support can be shown towards modders:-)

Hope to hear from you soon Out, I found your posts to be honest and supportive.

[Heavenly]

Where are the moderators??

Out -

thankyou and I apologise...I suppose it is one's own feelings of inadequacy. I speak for myself when I say that as an abstainer I go through periods of self-doubt and mourning....doubt that I can stay as an abstainer and mourning for the drinking I used to do...to think of never drinking again is crucifying to some of us...

Whilst I understand to keep debating failure and abstainers posting how they can't drink again on the moderating section is unfair and off-putting, please bear with us, we envy those who can moderate and I don't think I (in particular) do it consciously to upset or put you off moderating.

Certainly I will try not to be so defeatist on this side again of the forum, and am grateful you brought this to my (and I would think others abbers) attention.

Good Luck to all those trying and successfully moderating....

Regards
Heavenly

[LVT25]

Where are the moderators??

DeeBee--

Since you are watching this thread I wanted to respond to your post. I felt (feel) a lot like you. I've decided I don't need a "label--abstainer-moderator". Sometimes it's hard to know where to post, but I manage. Like you after I went af for 30 days, then 60, then.....at 69 I attended a wedding with my in-laws who are all pretty big drinkers. I handled it really well (I thought) had a couple of drinks one night. Since then (over a month ago) I've had a few beers on a couple of occasions. I don't dwell on it. I don't think about it much--that seems to get me in trouble. (Like-I'm not going to drink tonight even though everyone else will be)
I signed up for this 5K to help motivate me to be really careful with the al. I'm still pretty vulnerable to the nasty ciggies when I drink. So, it's still important I keep coming here, to remind me that I never want to go back to drinking the way I was, never! And honestly, I like being af more every day.
Have a good one!:h

[out]

Where are the moderators??

Thanks for the responses Nancy and Heavenly...

Nancy,

I do think modders or modder wannabes and abbers sometimes have some philosophical differences that can be hard to well...moderate, ha. I don't have so much a problem with what those differences are or that they are expressed, more an issue with where it is done.

As an analogy, there is a men's area here for guys to talk about guys issues. I am a women. I have never posted in the guys area, lurked or even once looked in there as I feel that would be invasive and disrespectful to what should be a safe place for the guys to talk

I don't have problem with people being protective of their sobriety and not wanting to entertain the idea of moderation because they feel it is dangerous to them, there are threads here for people who want to or are abstaining but then I question the motives in coming to a moderation forum to read and judge what's possible for some one else and then posting it.


"Perhaps they can with a drug like Topa that makes you dopey and is now linked with birth defects! Yikes. Having talk encouraging moderating is not constructive for those who need to be abstinent. It's like egging people on to something that could kill them."

I think that taking Topa for whatever purpose is also a personal choice. Some people choose to take it to help them abstain or maintain abstinence also. For some abstinance or moderation is more important to the person than the risks/side effects of another drug. I respect informed choices. I personally couldn't tolerate the topa (but lots of people can!) and when I really thought about it the times I have moderated sucessfully I wasn't talking a drug or suppliments, just living a happier more balanced life.

I wouldn't encourage moderation for everyone, I think it is a personal choice and I can see your point. I would just suggest that if people need to be abstinent then they streer clear of the moderation threads if even discussing the option upsets them. I woulld never go into a abstinence thread and insist that learning moderation is the only way and I am only asking for the same respect here. I don't think I've ever seen anyone here egg anyone on to moderate, only to support them in their express decision to do so.

That said, I don't think that people who ab shouldn't come here or people who don't define themselves one way or the other...actually I don't either, see below...it just seems like the closest fit here for me. I myself am actually abstaining while I work on some other things as I just don't want to have my attention divided and working on other things leaves me vunerable to slips too, but I know I will moderate again when I am ready.

"And insisting on abstinence only is not encouraging for those who truly want to moderate. It's like having uninvited Jehovah's Witnesses at the door."

That is a terrific analogy.

I also think that the idea of abstinence for some people is so terrifying they go on binges and drink to avoid thinking about it. If abstinence is the only change that is valued and the person doesn't feel capable of it yet then being afraid to give up something that seems so important can send someone in the opposite direction. So I think the continual egging on of abstience only here is equally as dangerous to some as moderation is to others.

"I always thought harm reduction was a better term than moderation anyway."

Yes, me too. Harm reduction is actually the philosophy I embrace...might be nice to have an area with that way of thinking. I also really like the term "substance misuse."

Anyway, I value your presence here. I advise you to just skip around and find things you like.

Thank you. I have found many things I like and many people I like here. I just need a breather from the discussion to focus on only positive support of controlled drinking. I just want to talk to and read about people who are doing it and spend a bit more time in persuing my other goals right now. So Ok, I am leaving for a bit, really this time


Heavenly,

I sincerely apprieciate your thoughtfulness and honesty. One area that I think we can both really connect on is the "mourning for the drinking we used to do". I think we all experinece loss when we change behaviors and in all honesty there were things about the kinda drinking we did that we liked or we wouldn't have done it. I miss having a good binge with my mates on a weekend or polishing off a bottle of wine while I cook before the guests even got there. I know I just can't do that anymore, at least on any kind of regular basis and I miss it sometimes.

For me one of the things that I am doing is looking objectively (not glorifying, not condeming) at the benefits I got by drinking that way and to find other healthier things to provide the same benefits, that might be helpful to both us abs and mods people alike.

Take care all. Thanks

[trixietrack]

Where are the moderators??

I just wanted to come back to this thread to add to it, since I have been away for quite a while. I am still moderating, going on 2 years. I never think of how much I don't miss falling off the bar stool, I can sit at home with a rack of full bottles of wine and not obsess about it. I can also go out and have 3 glasses with dinner and maybe an aperitif, and be like,' oh feel sleepy, time to go home drink some water and go to bed'.

I am a lot healthier and stronger all around. and yes it all started here. I just come here once in a while to give support and to let all know that it is possible and also that it feels great not to wake up feeling like hell and smelling like crap.

no more sloppy drunk sex. No more feeling crappy about what I said the night before.
I can even be supportive to those around me who are over doing it.

keep trying guys, it works. take your supplements and think positive. big hugs

The trix

[DeeBee]

Where are the moderators??

Thanks for checking in Trixie - it's inspiring to hear how well you are modding!

LVT, I agree with you. Which ever route I do decide to go, mod or abs, I will make sure that I stay an active part of this community.