Moderating is so subjective!

[Eve11]

Moderating is so subjective!

nancy;460500 wrote: But I realize this is controversial to say to some members here. The truth is, it's clear that some people on this site can never have just one or two and others can. If I can do it most of the time, I am feeling pretty good.

Nancy,
Thanks for the reply. And by the way, that's why we created this thread on the moderating board. I wouldn't post a thread like this on an AF board. We modders need to be able to feel that we can post, discuss what we need to in order to help each other stay on track.
Thank you everyone for all of the replies and I hope there's some new posts to follow. Great communication everyone.
Eve:thanks:

[A Work in Progress]

Moderating is so subjective!

Eve11;460535 wrote: Nancy,
Thanks for the reply. And by the way, that's why we created this thread on the moderating board. I wouldn't post a thread like this on an AF board. We modders need to be able to feel that we can post, discuss what we need to in order to help each other stay on track.
Thank you everyone for all of the replies and I hope there's some new posts to follow. Great communication everyone.
Eve:thanks:

I agree, this has been a good, thoughtful discussion. Although I do not ever intend to drink again, this whole subject fascinates me. And, professionally, I will always be working with people who are struggling with these questions.

wip

[nancy]

Moderating is so subjective!

Yeah it is good when we can have a civil conversation and yes it does belong in this particular forum.

I would like to add one thing, I don't think alcohol is going to become like butter without the use of medication. And for me, my problem was not severe enough to warrant using an anti-seizure drug. That just seems too extreme. Naltrexone is also a bit extreme considering it affects all kinds of pleasure. Chantix, now that seems to make sense, as long as you watch out for the emotional problems and suicide risk!

Another thing that occurred to me after I posted, I think whether your aim is moderating or abstinence, you have to get honest with yourself if you find you are continually failing. You try something else or you get more serious with yourself. It is amazing to find that we have some choice in this behavior.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this.

[Sunbeam]

Moderating is so subjective!

Hi Nancy,
Glad to see you here on this conversation.

I think the supports one needs for moderating depend on your drinking history. I keep cutting back on drinks and feel successful, but I am not using meds nor supplements. I do have a bottle of glutamine that I bought at WalMart, but I have taken some just a few times mostly for carb cravings last summer. My history did not include daily drinking, more binge-type. I did not grow up in a home with alcohol, but my use had gradually increased over the years.

For me, Drink Tracker is an important tool to enable me to be honest with myself. I only record honest drinks, 1 bottle wine = 5 drinks. Drinking memory is very foggy. If I were increasing I would know it, but it is also motivating for me to record my decreasing consumption. I wont feel I can declare real success until I continue my current path for several more months. I will always need to remain vigilant regarding alcohol intake.

[periwinkle]

Moderating is so subjective!

I was honestly very stoked when I started researching the topamax and found that it is often used as a migraine preventative. I am truly hoping that it wil help me in both areas. I am up to 75 mg per day and plan to stay there unless my Dr advises that I dose up higher. I seem do be just fine at this dose for both causes at least for now.

[vera-b]

Moderating is so subjective!

This has been an educational forum. The only thing I would add at this point is the observation that we can only "judge" moderation - or abstinence for that matter - from our individual experience and that of the people who post on MWO. I suspect that many folks who no longer visit this site are either happily abstinent or moderating and no longer need the support network, or they've fallen back into old habits and no longer want the support network. I've wondered myself how long I'll try to log in every day - or at what point I will feel it's ok to skip a few days or weeks without fear that I'll slide back into old territory. And, if you don't stay up with everyone's news, will it be hard to come back and visit? Eve, I realize this query isn't exactly "on message" with your moderation question, but then I do wonder how we modders truly move to the point where AL is a very minor player in our lives when we're constantly talking about it? Just questions - no answers.

Vera-b

[Sheepish]

Moderating is so subjective!

Hi All
Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful answers- I appreciate being a part of a productive discussion. As for the whole moderating issue- I still maintain that FOR ME- if I am contemplating my alcohol use-in any way- I have an issue to deal with. That is my personal truth.
Thank you all for your kind answers and discussion
-Sheep

[A Work in Progress]

Moderating is so subjective!

nancy;460500 wrote:
Abstinence can be really difficult mentally because you have this dreaded thought that you can never in any situation drink again. Every time you go out you are aware of it. Allowing a drink in controlled situations can take the edge of this and make it easier to get the problem under control.

But I realize this is controversial to say to some members here. The truth is, it's clear that some people on this site can never have just one or two and others can. If I can do it most of the time, I am feeling pretty good.

That's an important point, Nancy. I suspect that anyone who embarks on a life free of alcohol, but who "dreads" never drinking again, is likely to fail. I absolutely do NOT dread the thought of not drinking again; on the contrary, I am happy with that thought!

Once in a while I have the thought that "a" drink would be nice, and would feel good; and I recognize that it would, in fact, feel pleasant to have a drink. But I also recognize that it is such a small pleasure, and, compared to the pain that would accompany it, the pleasure is of zero importance. It's not that I can "never have just one or two," but that I cannot do that consistently, and most often it is way more than "one or two." And I am happy to have the whole internal dialogue taken out of the picture. When I am invited to an event that includes alcohol (tonight, for example), I don't go through any kind of grieving about the idea of not drinking, and I don't worry that I will cave in. It just isn't an issue. What a relief!

So... the internal, mental work for me, about drinking, is rarely difficult at all. If I were to try to engage in controlled, moderate drinking... wow. The internal dialogues would be clamoring all the time. It would be very unpleasant, for me, to have that stuff going on in my head! Alcohol and the small pleasure it can provide is just not that important to me.

wip

[Sheepish]

Moderating is so subjective!

Salient point Wips
-Sheep

[gyco]

Moderating is so subjective!

wow,lot of good comments,just up here early,its called a comfort zone ,sheepish, opinion is correct,us can be happy,first of all,i know in the place i went to,it was kinda how they teach,a so called normal person does not have our problems,they never think about it,difference between normal and having quote an Addiction,can addictive person stop,yes,but eventually as of with most thro the span of stopping,we addictive people have to talk about it,or in modderation,we talk about it,i will keep saying it, i,beleive it or not,Normal does not,look around,is normal a large perso or skinny person saying you have a problem,maybe a smoker,maybe a person who runs 50 miles a week,plus,or a person who sits behind a tv for hours on end,or a person who works too much,i could go on,you all no tht,I have an addiction,does not mean your a fat aholic,alchoholic,again you get my drift all,I have to find a comfort Zone,Normal mite never have this problem,i have to add,this,ive been here since june of 08,MWO,like AA or other online places are comfort zones,Normal does not need one,id like to add,I am a graduate of a place called Homewood,look it up,it is a holiday for at least 28 days,dont have to do anything but listen,can leave any time you want,they wil answer all your questions,think and listen for 28 days,or if they think more you stay,it did make a difference in my life,and so have al of you ,your gyco

[periwinkle]

Moderating is so subjective!

Well I'm a little confused by some things being said here.

In the MWO book, RJ says to look at the calendar before starting the program so that you aren't setting yourself up for failure. I didn't look up the exact wording, but that's what I recall, something like that. But it sounds like some of what you are saying contradicts that.

I did look at the calendar before starting. I committed to my initial 30 day AF knowing that there were a couple events "out there" in the weeks following that initial 30 days. The primary one being my husband's birthday. Thanksgiving is in there too, but I really did consider that event as a take it or leave it one.

I gave that a lot of careful consideration. I asked myself what my motives were? For me the answer was truly, "I want the option of sharing a bottle of wine with my husband on his birthday if that is what we choose to do." For me, the husbands birthday is proving to be a motivator and knowing that about myself went into my decision about the timing. I am motivated to not slip up this 30 days because then I would need to start over and not have that option on his birthday.

So in reading your posts here it sounds like my thinking is perhaps not on the right track. I know I'm new at this. So did I get something wrong here?

Any advice would be appreciated.

periwinkle

[A Work in Progress]

Moderating is so subjective!

Peri, I don't think you are getting anything "wrong." The decision about when to start an AF commitment is personal. I tend to think, though, that if you are waiting till there will be a time when it will be totally comfortable to stop, then you will never stop. Wanting to share a bottle of wine with your husband on his birthday might be so important to you that you choose to make that an occasion to drink, delaying any AF period of time... Just remember, that is a type of "alcoholic" thinking, in that you are recognizing how important alcohol still is to you, and to your enjoyment of an occasion... in my own perspective, that's just part of the whole business of having an unusually strong attachment to alcohol, which (along with loss of control) is the central problem in addiction. So... do you cater to that attachment/addiction, or not? And if so, for how long? Totally up to you.

In the book RJ is describing her own program, and how it worked for her. I doubt that any of us here has had an experience that is really a whole lot like RJ's program. We are all struggling to develop our own programs. And a lot of it is trial and error... We just hope that our "errors" are not too serious and do not last too long, and that we learn from them!

wip

[periwinkle]

Moderating is so subjective!

I hear what you are saying WIP. The thing is, I didn't say that it is important for me to drink on his birthday. I said, and I still feel, that I would like to have the 30 days AF behind me. In that way it would be an option. I see a distinction there, at least for me. I may choose not to drink. If I were in the midst of a 30 day AF commitment I might feel deprived.

[A Work in Progress]

Moderating is so subjective!

Peri, it's OK to feel "deprived"! That's the precise thing that everyone works on during any period of being AF!

I'm not suggesting you change your plan... just pointing out that changes in the way we think about alcohol, and our relationship to it, are a very central part of recovery!

[periwinkle]

Moderating is so subjective!

I think it interesting how everyone here says read the book. But from what I see, few really follow the plan and few really believe that it is possible to attain the results RJ and Brenda found. I realize that it will not work for all but I must believe that it can and does work for some, maybe many. Like someone else said, maybe the successful ones go away. Maybe they are discouraged that so many here tell them that they only think they are being successful.

RJ didn't set out with her plan right away doing 30 days af. She speaks of not feeling deprived on day one and week one of her plan after having only one or two glasses of wine. So, no, I don't feel that it is necessarily alcoholic thinking to want to not feel deprived on my husbands birthday. Besides, as I said, if nothing else it is absolutely motivating me to stay af for this 30 days. Doesn't that count for something? Aren't you the whatever it takes advocate? lol