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**TheSunFlower** · April 24, 2013, 08:20 PM

af Thursday 25 April

TT....I plan to have a great Thursday....even though it is Wednesday.

I know what you mean about holidays that should be somber.....be about drinking...Memorial Day here is quite the booze fest. Kick off to summer....no it is freaking Memorial Day.

Mick....I honestly relate to your not understanding, because I did not understand as well. But, as I was challenged to go deeper I see more of me. And you are correct....we are not much that different than the population. Society has taught us to say that we "feel good, fine and ok"....we are so conditioned to say that. But, what is really good to to you....describe it...and for me its hard to find the words. We have to check in physically, emotionally and spiritually.....and Good, Fine, and OK....are not allowed.

YAH....I am nowhere as trained as you are. But I am learning that I truly need to be present for everyone in my life. And "present" does not mean...while they are talking....I have a million things running though my head. Learning to really listen...is quite the challenge. And when someone says they feel "ok"....what does "ok" mean. I hated that when a therapist asked me that......did they not know what "ok" felt like

No....they did not....because my "ok" was different than theirs.

I have to write a paper for my class. I have decided to write it on "How Massage Therapy Can Assist Recovering Addicts". We have to source it.....not sure that personal experience will cut it

**blondie** · April 24, 2013, 08:27 PM

af Thursday 25 April

Morning TT and SunFlower

Yes, ANZAC Day - we went to one of the local Dawn services, not the main one in town, and there were still a great number of people attending. There were only 1 or 2 old WWII Diggers there; so sad.

Anyway, hope everyone is doing well. Got some more tomato plants on special, Mick, so I'll be looking for your chutney recipe (bunny-free, of course!!)

:hiya: be back later...

**kuya** · April 24, 2013, 08:32 PM

af Thursday 25 April

Afternoon Abbers......I think I skipped yesterday. Got in so late last night I don't know if it is New York or new year.

I hear ya SF on the issue of NEVER being able to truly get what others feel, no matter how much we describe it. Only angry with its physical manifestations and body language seems universal which is why so many have anger issues......others truly KNOW what they are feeling and give them a wide berth or placate them.

TT I saw what war did to my foster father and refuse to commemorate it......I struggle with what message it really sends.

I have yet to decide on what type of counselling or who.

**Mick** · April 25, 2013, 02:00 AM

af Thursday 25 April

Morning all...and how are we today?Happy Anzac day to you all down there..hope you all have a good day.Well garden got a bit more work done to it yesterday ,so its nearly finished .Went swimming too,so aching a wee bit this morning!

Tea and coffee on the go

Morning me hearties?TT whats that all about then? you sound like a comic pirate :H
As for ex forces and drinking....and pstd..got to agree with you..In fact drink and crime.I honestly believe that not enough are done for forces personnel when they are time served.I think there is a massive gap that does not get addressed between forces life and civvy street in peace time far less in war!Encompassing both the alcohol and criminal element,ther are a large percentage of ex forces who are either alkies or locked up..now is that because so many were in the forces, or that a larger percentage turn to that.
Personally speaking,I was lucky? Did 12 years in the army,served 3 tours in Northern Ireland and also served in the Falkands. In a peace time fore I also spent a lot of time abroad ..where alcohol is duty tax free.I was also taught how to drive, and fire armoured vehicles, strip and use weapons of all sorts and have used them in combat situations.
When Left, I was given a 6 week course on how to prepare for interviews which was in effect a major demob piss up,and a tick in the box exercise for them!!and that was it..goodbye.Without going into details,I left with other people who had seen similar and worse!I was quite fortunate inasmuch as I got off my bum and managed to find a job that turned into a career,but it would have been so so easy when I look back to have turned to drink completely and gone into crime as opposed to the other side of the bars...oh and I had a drink problem, which I had to feed and was no longer tax free, so at the time a bottle of vodka in the land of duty free had been ?4.00 suddenly became ?10..and was smaller because it was in pints as opposed to litres!!
there you go..where did that lot come from?rant over!..oh hello Eddy !!!

Morning Lav..and how are you?As for keeping the rabbit white..would love to say I use the washing machine...but it isnt me.There are 2 rabbits ,and they keep each other spick and span..I sometimes wonder what the relationship is between them..she is forever washing him, whilst outside though he is like the adolescent male..adventurous but ever watchful and protective Maybe you should teach the chickens to wash each other!One coffee coming up ma'am.Any plans for today?This is taking me ages to type..fingers are bit numb this morning and wont do as they are told!!Have a great day whatever you do

Morning ppqp ...wow you sound lot more cheery today ..good for you...talking about saving money...when I extended that border,I dug the soil out of the middle..you can just see it in the pic, to make the new width up..left a large hole in there that need to be filled..went to get some compost and soil yesterday..got some large (56 litre bags x5) damaged bags at?1 each instead of ?5.35.Also went up a disused quarry and got a couple of large chunks of sandstone too for zilch..so going back for more today..big stones ..less plants! have a cuppa..here you go

Morning YAH......and how are you?offee? be creative with your garden..doesnt have to be huge..just dont go mad and try and fit the quart into the pint pot!Good challenge for you..one you get up and running with your business!

Hiya ltlw...firstly I would like to say you sound like a very talented lady....I would love to draw and paint but cant..as for the languages wow well done.Think they said if the tests prove positive ,then my daughter gets a special computer ..whatever that is! If you are as suessful with staying af as you seem to be with everything else ..youll be on a winner so well done :goodjob:

As for ppqps English test...Im still learning it..Im Scottish!! :H

Morning blondie ..and how are you?yes no probs you can have the chutney recipes when ever ..do you like spicy ,hot ,sweet plain ?

Morning KY...hows you today? Interesting comment there..you saw what it did to your foster father,ergo you refuse to commemorate it...that would be some thing to untangle..but it starts getting into personal land and it could go on for ages so lets leave it!! grr have to keep going back checking spelling here!!So what are you up to today? anything? well its evening now for you so have a good one

Morning SF..and how are you today...good luck with the paper!you seem to be getting along well fingers crossed for you

Right peeps this has taken me a bit longer than norm so off we go ..take care and have a good one

Redneck id continued

22. You clean your fingernails with a stick.

23. Your coffee table used to be a cable spool.

24. You keep a can of RAID on the kitchen table.

25. Your wife can climb a tree faster than your cat.

26. Your mother has "ammo" on her Christmas list.

27. Every socket in your house breaks a fire code.

28. You've totaled every car you've ever owned.

29. There are more than five McDonald's bags in your car.

30. The Home Shopping operator recognizes your voice.

31. There has ever been crime-scene tape on your bathroom door.

32. You've ever been kicked out of the zoo for heckling the monkeys.

33. The taillight covers of your car are made of red tape.

34. You think a subdivision is part of a math problem.

35. You've ever bathed with flea and tick soap.

36. You think "taking out the trash" means taking your in-laws to a movie.

37. You have every episode of Hee-Haw on tape.

38. You've ever been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog.

39. You?re considered an expert on worm beds.

40. Your kids take a siphon hose to "Show and Tell"

41. The dog catcher calls for a backup unit when visiting your house.

42. You've ever bought a used cap.

43. Your CB antenna is a danger to low-flying planes.

44. You pick your teeth?.. from a catalog.

45. You've ever financed a tattoo.

46. You've ever stolen toilet paper.

47. You think a hot tub is a stolen bathroom fixture.

48. People hear your car a long time before they see it.

49. The gas pedal on your car is shaped like a bare foot.

50. You prefer car keys to Q-tips.

51. You take a fishing pole into Sea World.

52. You think a turtleneck is key ingredient for soup.

53. You've ever stood in line to have your picture taken with a freak of nature.

54. You think the French Riviera is foreign car.

55. You go to a stock car race and don't need a program.

56. You've ever filled your deer tag on the golf course.

57. You have ever used lard in bed.

58. You own more than 3 shirts with cut off sleeves.

59. You have ever spray-painted your girlfriends name on an overpass.

60. Your lifetime goal is to own a fireworks stand.

A dog thinks: Hey, these people I live with feed me, love me, provide me with a nice warm, dry house, pet me, and take good care of me ... They must be Gods!

A cat thinks: Hey, these people I live with feed me, love me, provide me with a nice warm, dry house, pet me, and take good care of me ... I must be a God!

A snail was mugged by a tortoise. The police said "Can you give us a description of your attacker?
The snail said, "no, it all happened so fast!"

Two avid hunters take a hunter's safety class in which they learn that the universal signal for an emergency is three shots in the air.
Sure enough, on their next hunting trip the two men get lost.
One says to the other, "What shall we do?"
The other says, I know fire three shots in the air and someone may come to find us.
He fires off three shots, and they wait two hours. No sign of help.
What shall we do? Fire off three more shots. So he does. Three hours later there is no response and it is getting dark. The one says "Shall we try again?"
The other says, "I guess not... I only have two arrows left...

A couple had a fight after which the wife started packing her belongings. Her husband asked her, 'where are you packing to?' She answered, 'I'm going to my mother.' After a while, the man started packing too. She asked, 'what are you doing, where are you going?' He answered, 'I'm going to my mother'. She asked, 'what happens to the 6 children then? Her husband answered, 'you're going to your mother, I'm going to my mother, and the children will also have to go to their mother!!'

I have been in many places, but I've never been in Cahoots. Apparently, you can't go alone. You have to be in Cahoots with someone.

I've also never been in Cognito. I hear no one recognizes you there.

I have, however, been in Sane. They don't have an airport; you have to be driven there. I have made several trips there, thanks to my friends, family and work.

I would like to go to Conclusions, but you have to jump, and I'm not too much on physical activity anymore.

I have also been in Doubt. That is a sad place to go, and I try not to visit there too often.

I've been in Flexible, but only when it was very important to stand firm.

Sometimes I'm in Capable, and I go there more often as I'm getting older.

One of my favorite places to be is in Suspense! It really gets the adrenalin flowing and pumps up the old heart! At my age I need all the stimuli I can get!

And, sometimes I think I am in Vincible but life shows me I am not!

A guy was driving when a policeman pulled him over. He rolled down his window and said to the officer, "Is there a problem, Officer?"
"No problem at all. I just observed your safe driving and am pleased to award you a $5,000 Safe Driver Award. Congratulations. What do you think you're going to do with the money?"
He thought for a minute and said, "Well, I guess I'll go get that drivers' license."
The lady sitting in the passenger seat said to the policeman, "Oh, don't pay attention to him - he's a smartass when he's drunk and stoned."
The guy from the back seat said, "I TOLD you guys we wouldn't get far in a stolen car!"
At that moment, there was a knock from the trunk and a muffled voice said, "Are we over the border yet?"

A police officer in a small town stopped a motorist who was speeding down Main Street.
"But officer." the man began, "I can explain,".
"Just be quiet," snapped the officer. "I'm going to let you cool your heels in jail until the chief gets back..."
"But officer, I just wanted to say...."
"And I said to keep quiet! You're going to jail!"
A few hours later the officer looked in on his prisoner and said, "Lucky for you that the chief is at his daughter's wedding. He'll be in a good mood when he gets back."
"Don't count on it," answered the fellow in the cell. "I'm the groom."

The following are real statements that have been made by and to police officers

"Relax, the handcuffs are tight because they're new. They'll stretch after you wear them a while."

"If you take your hands off the car, I'll make your birth certificate a worthless document."

"If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

"Can you run faster than 1200 feet per second? Because that's the
speed of the bullet that'll be chasing you."

"You don't know how fast you were going? I guess that means I can
write anything I want to on the ticket, huh?"

#10 "Yes, sir, you can talk to the shift supervisor, but I don't think
it will help. Oh, did I mention that I'm the shift supervisor?"

#9 "Warning! You want a warning? O. K., I'm warning you not to do that
again or I'll give you another ticket."

"The answer to this last question will determine whether you are
drunk or not. Was Mickey Mouse a cat or a dog?"

"Fair? You want me to be fair? Listen, fair is a place where you go
to ride on rides, eat cotton candy, and corn dogs and step in monkey poo. "

"Yeah, we have a quota. Two more tickets and my wife gets a toaster oven."

"In God we trust, all others we run through NCIC."

"How big were those 'Just two beers' you say you had

"No sir, we don't have quotas anymore. We used to, but now we're allowed to write as many tickets as we can."

"I'm glad to hear that chief (of Police) Hawker is a personal friend
of yours. So you know someone who can post your bail."

The envelope please.....................

AND THE WINNER IS ...

"You didn't think we give pretty women tickets? You're right, we don't. Sign here."

**learningtolovewinter** · April 25, 2013, 02:05 AM

af Thursday 25 April

Good morning everyone... just reading my posts from last night. Sorry for being so grumpy, I am down with the flu (and in denial about). What is it with me anyhow? I am not even working, so who cares if I stay in bed?
TT= ur are correct, visual and tactile learning works for me, but it is weird because for some reason I can read and understand quite a lot. I just cannot write. Well, I try to write but it makes sense only to my eyes. I score high on intelligence tests, but that isn't really the point now is it?
Anyhow, I am not dwelling on this today.
I think the unemployed thing is bothering me a bit too. I have never wanted to work and not been able to; never, ever. I find myself to be highly employable and productive. I am trying to look at it like this: I was entirely burnt out from working in a school the last 5 years. Now I can just paint, which is amazing. The reason I feel a bit torn is because my art teacher job really gave me an identity. Well, I already had one as I lived on that island so long, but here I am no one. No one knows me, even my husbands friends don't really talk to me, they talk to who they think I might be? It is a little surreal sometimes, in a funny way though. Don't get me wrong. So, the good thing is it gives me the chance to reinvent myself, right. Just draw and paint and forget the teaching? I miss the kids though. Maybe a little teaching to keep things lively? We had a lot of fun in that art room!! I know I am in a fantastic position, believe me. I guess I have a lot to figure out. Please excuse my rant on learning Dutch. I really didn't think it would be necessary before I came here. Everyone speaks English after all, right?
That isn't the point.
I am just going to focus on the fact that when the lights finally come on for me (speaking Dutch), it will just go from there. That is how is was learning French & Italian. Although I had a long history of studying French, since childhood, and 4 years of Latin. Ugh. I am definitely not in my comfort zone.
I guess that is the just of it. Important this is I am giving up the drink- doing pretty good on that front.

**learningtolovewinter** · April 25, 2013, 02:15 AM

af Thursday 25 April

Micks:
Hiya ltlw...firstly I would like to say you sound like a very talented lady....I would love to draw and paint but cant..as for the languages wow well done.Think they said if the tests prove positive ,then my daughter gets a special computer ..whatever that is! If you are as suessful with staying af as you seem to be with everything else ..youll be on a winner so well done

Thanks for your encouragement Micks!
A new computer huh? Let me google and see what that might be? I am 45, always went to schools with fantastic learning support programs, and depended on humans to help me out. Maybe there is software I can use to make this easier? Let's see...
I think one problem I have is I want to read, write and speak like an adult in Dutch, not a 3 year old. That, is unavoidable. And it doesn't help when people laugh. And I always get the same answer to my question: why are you laughing?
"I am not sure why, your accent is good- you are just funny." I think I know why- it's because I put emphasis on the wrong words.
"What time do you close?" Anyway. Let's just leave it alone for a day?

**Mick** · April 25, 2013, 05:19 AM

af Thursday 25 April

ltlw...be who you are ...not who people want you to be..maybe you need to try and re-establish your own identity..as opposed to "this is the wife"..might be more about widening your own social network and people relationships which you had when you were teaching..as for those who laugh when you speak Dutch..whatever you said in Dutch that made them laugh..I would repeat it in French and Italian..see how smart they are!!!failing that just ignore them!!!

**Lavande** · April 25, 2013, 06:29 AM

af Thursday 25 April

Good Thursday morning Abbers

Hope your holiday went well TT!
Our Memorial Day in the end of May is the unofficial kickoff of summer with family cookouts, opening of swimming pools, parades, etc. Many do use that day as an excuse to act like idiots, sad but true. Police step up sobriety checks on the roads in an attempt to try to save lives.

Greetings SF, good luck writing your paper.
Greetings blondie & kuya!

LTLW, I'm sorry it's been so difficult for you, I can only imagine.
I hope you feel better very soon, take good care of yourself

Mick, your Redneck ID description cracks me up! You are describing all of my neighbors :H
No wonder I don't fit in around here, even after being in this location for nearly ten years. At this point I don't even try to fit in ~ I don't want to be like them :H
My animals shall remain dirty....too chilly to turn the hose on the dogs outside!!!!

Nothing special on my plan for today, something will pop up I'm sure.
Wishing everyone a great aF Thursday!

Lav

**porqoui** · April 25, 2013, 06:57 AM

af Thursday 25 April

MAE ALL...

TT... thanks for the kickoff. You mean there really is going to be a thaw? I'm not holding my breath. Weather forecast has improved for the weekend so the demolition should work out just fine. Hope you enjoyed ANZAC day.

SF...good morning. I totally agree, listening is an art. I can definetly tell when someone is thinking more about what they want to say rather than actually listening to what I am saying. I really try to not be that person. I think your choice for your paper is a grand idea. Let us know if you uncover any breakthroughs. :H

Blonie...yes there are not as many vets attending Memorial Services here as well. When you're over run with tomatoes you can always send some my way as it could be a very short growing season here this year.

Mick...for someone with sore fingers it didn't impede the length of your post, just the time it took to post it. Thanks for the coffee much appreciated this morning. Up early and raring to go again. Good job on the money savings, guess there's deals to be had out there. I'll be looking for them. Should work out ok as if the elusive thaw ever happens we'll be onto "end of the season sales". :H

LTLW..."The reason I feel a bit torn is because my art teacher job really gave me an identity." Boy did that statement hit home for me. After the divorce and before I got my current job, I was just lost. Didn't even want to visit with people as I would dread the usually question "So what have you been up to lately?" Easy answer though, nothing! Loving the positive attitude "It'll give me a chance to reinvent myself." You go girl!

Lav...yup Memorial Day = start of summer drinking here too. Mind you some start on the long weekend in May (Queen's Birthday) and don't wait till July. Sounds like you've got an easy day ahead of you so enjoy.

Have to go quiet the rumbling in my tummy, get a second cuppa and read my jokes. Yup they're my jokes

Have a great AF Thursday all and all to come....

PPQP

**learningtolovewinter** · April 25, 2013, 10:20 AM

af Thursday 25 April

heya... I think I need to give myself a bit of a break, we have only been here for 7 months after all.
it is just a big adjustment on virtually all levels of my life.
i feel a little guilty that i am not earning any money, but my husband knew it might take me a while to sort myself. i think we are just both in a rush to get on with living our new lives together. (plus i like my own money!!!

i will create a life for myself, i am sure of that. my background has nothing to do with politics, which is my husbands world, so when his friends talk about this kind of thing i am just mystified why in the world ANYONE would bring up this subject with me?!!?? poor dears! again, they don't know me and i don't know them, so on this front we are even.

ah. thanks for everyone's encouraging words. And Micks, i did find info on new software available for dyslexics- actually i knew about it but forgot.

i found some other good information as well, which might prove to be very helpful and i thank you for reminding me about this 'stuff.' on the AF i am doing fine (i have the flu so that kinda helps... hahaha). feeling a bit less cranky than this morning too.... strength to ya all!

**Catbuddy** · April 25, 2013, 12:59 PM

af Thursday 25 April

Mae, everyone.

Busy week it seems. Totally awful time at work here, with internal blow ups all around. Sad after such a good conference week last week. Our company is under great stress, so it shows up with interpersonal dynamics. It really challenges you to keep your big girl pants on.

Mick, I'm getting some plants in the ground this weekend! I just love your bunnies. It truly makes me long for my bunny, Bob.

Question for our group here: does AA deal with the physical/chemical side of addiction? I've been thinking about my experiences last month. I had a terrible time with food cravings, emotional outbursts and AL cravings, and I was taking some hormones that I think were the wrong mix for me. It drove home how much I am battling what my body demands, and only now that I have L-glutamine, amoryn, b-complex, awareness of diet, etc. do I feel I can survive these challenges. Do folks in AA get this advice/education/support?

Cat

**porqoui** · April 25, 2013, 03:50 PM

af Thursday 25 April

Checking in to say I am having a Fabulous Day. Started off upbeat and energetic and it's stil there. :H

LTLW...glad Mick's response triggered some memories for you and look where that lead. You sound positively positive about what you've found out. And you're right, give yourself a break, new beginings all over the place for you. :l

CB...good to see you and hang onto those big girl pants. Sorry to hear there's stressful times at work, makes me even more grateful for the job I have. Seems work helps me destress. :H

Short answer to your question is "NO", other than people sharing their experiences. Bill (one of the founders of AA) was just starting to figure out the physical/chemical/nutrional part of things when he passed away. I do believe his wife carried on researching and writing about it but I haven't read any of her publications. You can always pop onto the AA Thread and ask Mary (Retteacher). I know she would know the complete answer.

Hope things settle down at work soon, but there's always your garden for serenity.....

PPQP

**treetops** · April 25, 2013, 03:55 PM

af Thursday 25 April

Hi Cat
I can't speak with much experience of AA - but I have had some and the short answer is that AA's programme does not address the 'physical/chemical side of addiction'? I am sure there are folk at the meetings who will discuss this after the meetings and be supportive but at least what I found is that the format of an AA meeting and the Steps does not go into what you are saying Cat.
Many years ago - I had a bad experience at AA because I said I was on anti-depressants. I might as well have said I was taking heroin - at least to the people in the room. I don't think thats usual but it ws off-putting esp as at that stage I was new to the Recovery Game. So when I briefly re-tried AA last year I kept quiet about any meds or supplements. Which I suspect many at AA do as well. Anyway in the course of an open meeting the time to say this doesn't really emerge. The message was quite clear - I was powerless over AA and I had this disease - had had it all my life. I would not recover without AA. Everything else was icing on the cake.That is a breakthrough for the millions who AA has worked for but to my way of thinking (MWO!!!) it was fatalistic. It was great to meet other alkies - realise the common denominator but at this stage n my life I knew it would be counter-productive to my recovery. I found going to AA meetings did not lessen my cravings or my tension- quite the opposite (as in the way AL was talked about - very diff to the way we talk about here IMO.
I reiterate that these are my views and I know some on our thread find support at AA (eg PPQP) but I have a gut feeling that many of us have not found it helpful.
The other answer - is why not try AA - go to a few different types of meetings - you never know????
Excuse typos folks but I should be doing some editing of other people's work at this hour!!!!
I will try to start the Friday thread later on -
I esp want to thank Mick for sharing his experience of post-military with us. Its an area I am interested in (research wise). Also thanks LTLW - I also lived and worked in tropical warm places and at one stage nearly followed a Dutch expat back to den Hague to live with him. He was a high level professional working for the govt. Hope its not the same guy

couldn't be as I much older than you and the guy I nearly followed didn't live in the Caribbean. Funny old world:H:H But I did face some of the issues you raised - and decided not t follow him......that was as I said decades ago....

**porqoui** · April 25, 2013, 04:06 PM

af Thursday 25 April

:hallo: TT...yup it sure depends on the meeting you end up at. Even my home group can make me feel like stopping at the liquor store on the way home sometimes. :H

First and foremost for me is ...take what I need and leave the rest.

Now get back to work....

PPQP

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