Living Fully

[frances]

Good for you for training for a race - I'm so lazy and I really need to incorporate exercise into my life! If only I could get past thinking about it and actually do it!!

You have been so well-thought-out about this whole thing. I have to say that it sounds to me like deep down you really don't want to drink at all. I'm not sure why you are struggling with accepting that - I agree, it is such a brain twister!

You have mentioned many reasons in earlier posts where you speculated why you think you still want to drink - I actually just took a minute to poke around and find them…here is what you said on the thread you started before this one under ‘personal journals’ :

“SO why, if I like not drinking (which I sincerely do), do I still have a drink once in awhile?

1. because it offers me a connection with other people
2. because it makes me feel in control - as I am able to control it without much effort
3. because it reminds me I've overcome something difficult
4. because the effects immediately remind me that its not worth it to have very much (one - MAYBE two)
5. because I can
6. because it relieves some of the extreme of total abstinence, actually makes alcohol feel like less of an issue in my life”

I could relate to most of these and especially the first and last ones. Do these things still make it worth it to you? From so many of your posts, it sounds like you really seem to prefer not drinking and even though you have been successful in moderating, you continue to be unhappy when you have had something to drink. Maybe it's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of situation that can't be helped. But I can't help but wonder if you'd be happier simply cutting it out completely.

I wish I could help you decide. In the meantime, if there is anything I can do to help you stay more abstinent I would be glad to do it! I didn't log on much while I was on vacation, but I log in at least once a day and usually more so I will be around!!

[KENSHO]

Yes Frances, maybe so. But I don't like being told "no". I don't like absolutes. I like breaking rules, and I want to "have it all". I want to be a part of the crows at times. I want to feel strong and able enough to "be able to handle it".

But I don't really ever enjoy drinking much. Lately, I have used it for stress relief, which is breaking my most valued rule. Alcohol does offer a slight departure from stress, but then makes me more stressed afterword. I don't drink perhaps as much as some people here - but I seem to have plenty of negative effects after what is too much for me, which seems to be anything more than one.

I liked being able to drink one glass of wine at a nice dinner with friends - once every few weeks. I felt free and strong. But I am having trouble keeping it at that without the daily support - I can't do this alone. And my little tiny thread here, while a nice place to speak my mind, is not the same as a large support group, or as posting my AF days on a roll call where many people are doing the same.

In other words, I was able to have "a little" when I was participating daily in a group that reinforced how great abstinence is. But I feel like I have to commit to "never" in order to be a part of that group - and I am obviously having trouble with the idea of "never".

[frances]

Yes, it sure is a dilemma! I understand your problem. Unfortunately I don't have a solution. A roll call for moderators? Not sure how much participation that would get. I do find my tracking spreadsheet helps me a lot and makes me feel good about what I'm doing. For example, I have had an average of 4.27 drinks per month since January and spread out over an average of 3.42 'occasions' per month. Of course I have had months with zero drinks and then those with vacations (like July) where I tended to drink more frequently but still in reasonable amounts (one drink each day I drank on my latest vacation). Anyway this tracking really helps me and also just reading here helps me a ton. But I know that you prefer more direct interaction and with more people.

[badger]

I don't know how active it is as you have to register to see some/most of it, but Moderation Management have a forum that might be of some use for you:

http://forum.moderation.org/forumdis...M-Public-Forum

all the best

-badger

[blue1]

Just looking for a place to fit in around here.....I only had two AF days last month....and I'm drinking way more than I want to....I don't want to be totally AF....but I need to cut back. When I was posting in the mod squad a long time ago when I was -143...I was getting some good AF time in.

I've been posting in general discussion....but most are trying to be totally AF....and I like them a lot! But i don't feel like I fit in exactly....

I need to be able to talk freely about how much I'm drinking or not drinking....it helps for somebody to say good job if I only drink a couple if drinks and encourage me when I go over board....to say I'm proud that you didn't drink all day yesterday....I just need support....but I need to be able to say I only had 2 beers and 2 shots or....I drank 12 beers and 12 shots....that's what helps me.

Can anybody understand what I'm saying?

I miss the mod squad!😢😢😢

[JanCan]

I would just like to point out that this is an area labeled "Monthly Moderation", so I would assume people reading and posting here are interested in that. There is also an area called "Montly Abstinence", and I would assume those who desire that would read and post there. To me it would be ridiculous to not be able to express the desire to moderate in an area that is intended for just that. Just my two cents...

[frances]

Hi Blue - I am mostly not drinking at all. And so I usually come on here and read, and I post just every once in awhile. Most moderation attempts start with a period of AF - usually 30 days is what I've seen recommended, although for me personally, that wasn't enough to then successfully moderate - I needed a longer time abstinent before I could break my habit of daily drinking. Do you have any interest in trying to be AF for awhile before you try to moderate? It might help you be more successful. Also, setting goals is very helpful, and also having strategies for how you will avoid drinking when certain situations come up.

I don't know what happened with the mod squad - there weren't many folks posting there but it definitely was more active and then just seemed to die. I know one person decided moderating wasn't working for her - she was drinking way more than she wanted to - and so she is now not drinking at all. Moderating is very difficult. For many people, it is just simply easier to take the choice off of the table. There aren't many here who post regularly who are moderating - I think Stevo is here and guapo (?) and it looks like JanCan -but I don't know everyone well enough to say other than from what's been posted. Maybe more of the successful moderators are on the medications area?

Anyway - I think you should feel free to post on the moderators section about trying to moderate...that is definitely what this area is for! If you wanted to start your own thread you could do that too...it would be interesting to see if anyone contributes. It's definitely very quiet over here!

[frances]

Hey Kensho - you out there? Hope you are doing ok!

[KENSHO]

I'm here. So very stressed with work. Not drinking - but I won't say I haven't thought about it. The more I go through this process, the more I come to the conclusion that I really don't like drinking. I thought I'd be happy being able to have a little. But all I can say is that I never felt happier than when I was having none. I am not drinking daily, and I am not binging - but I do not like "the open door to be able to moderate". I don't think anyone would tell me I have a problem with alcohol with the small quantity I'm consuming - but it's a problem to ME that it is something I think about and wonder about and try to make fit in my life. Yes, true moderators don't think about it; I do. Almost done with it.

[KENSHO]

I'm working late tonight and feeling pissed off. Why is alcohol an issue in my life? Why can't I just live like normal people? It's so hard to label myself a problem drinker when the only one who views it as a problem is me. I think part of why I haven't wanted to leave alcohol behind completely is because I feel such a rift between me and my husband. When I don't drink, I feel like I'm moving forward while he stays stuck. And we already seem on different pages. Anyone have advice for that?

[frances]

Hi Kensho - I know how you feel - I hate that I am not a normal drinker. Two nights ago I really felt a 'pull'. Last night was OK and tonight there I was again feeling a pull. Both times I did not drink, but now I'm irritated because things had been going really well without much thinking about it but now I am and so I will just be strong and reevaluate things since I'm not sure I like the stinking thinking.

About your husband - when I first quit drinking I was irritated and disappointed when my husband drank and I think I felt a little bit like you do now. After time that has changed - this is about me, not him. I don't know your personal situation though. I wonder if you could talk honestly with him about how you feel. Also - are there things you could do together that's new and does not involve drinking? Maybe that would help. Since this section of MWO is so 'slow' you might want to consider starting another thread maybe under general discussion to see if others might have other thoughts to share.

Glad to see you back!

[KENSHO]

I know this the "moderation" section, but I'm going to go head and post my current thoughts...

1. I'm not happy moderating - I thought I would be
2. I can't do this alone

The above two statements should be all I need to know and live by - but I still really, really want to be able to have that 30 day glass of wine. I don't want to be different and I don't want to label myself an alcoholic.*I want to be a part of the crowd. This is the biggest hurdle for me. I was REALLY happy having one glass of wine with a dinner every 3-4 weeks - but I have not maintained that. Once the “one” every once in awhile becomes OK, the lines are blurred and more and more becomes OK.

I also struggle with the fact that my husband still drinks, and this takes that connection away between us (though drinking causes me to be more argumentative and irritable - so don’t these things cancel out? Trading for a good and getting a bad = 0). But I feel like not drinking is choosing to evolve - to swim upstream past everyone I know who is still swimming down. This bothers me tremendously because I already don’t feel terribly connected with a lot of people in my life.

The fact is that any problems I have with alcohol are not obvious. Unlike someone who has lost jobs, or lost their license or lost spouses, or who has been regularly seen in public sloshed - NOT having these things makes it harder to convince myself that that door can't be left open, because there is not anyone else on the planet who would tell me I should close it.*

That said, the fact remains that I am not happy drinking more than 1 every 30 days. And I still want to believe I can achieve that. The trouble is that there doesn't seem to be daily support for it - and I'm not sure I can even do it. Leaving alcohol behind seems like the answer but I can't seem to quite get there.

[jane27]

Hi guys, Had a quick thought - what if you guys were to hold a group discussion re defining abstinence based moderation? It sounds like a closer description of what you guys are wanting- and it would be cool if you could come up with a standard of what that means, and to measure yourselves against. Wishing you guys a nice day. xoxox

[frances]

Hi Jane - I think you've come up with a term for what Kensho and I have both been striving for - "abstinence-based moderation". I like that! For me, moderation as I typically see discussed here has involved much more drinking than what I want to do. I like the idea of coming up with a standard for that - I know Kensho was mentioning one drink a month/every 3 weeks or so. Something like that is also where I want to be - not to say that I have to have a drink every 3 weeks or every month but just that it really shouldn't be more than that. (I know, I know, you are probably thinking "if only one, why not none?" - I don't have a good answer for that right now but certainly do keep that in mind pretty regularly).

Kensho what do you think? Any interest in trying to define this more clearly so we can track against that goal?

My real goal, which hasn't existed in moderation forums that I have seen, is to get to a place where I don't think about it. I have it or I don't have it, no big deal. I have been feeling really good about being very close to that except for recently, after vacation with a string of consecutive days that seemed to quickly get my brain going to a bad place. But I don't think I should ever get away from tracking because it will help me identify potential issues earlier, at least I hope it will.

[All done drinking]

I don't know what happened with the mod squad - there weren't many folks posting there but it definitely was more active and then just seemed to die. I know one person decided moderating wasn't working for her - she was drinking way more than she wanted to - and so she is now not drinking at all. Moderating is very difficult. frances

frances,

I am not sure you if you were referring to me as the former moderator who was drinking way more than I wanted to. If you did mean me, I wanted to clarify my situation (as this is the scary part about believing in moderation). I maintained a mod lifestyle here for 7 years with fairly good results. I usually kept to 1-4 or 5 drinks per week with the exception of going over my desired amount about one time a month. Often that meant only having 3 and a slight hangover or maybe worse with 4 or 5 (bought a bottle of wine to only have two and ended up drinking the whole bottle). However, there were times (about once a year) where the one night I blew it was BAD! Totally made a fool of myself in front of my teen son and his friends one time with getting into an argument with him and slurring my speech. Took another son out to dinner one night (hubby and an employee were along) and the waiter (a friend) kept the wine free flowing and I had to have help walking to the car. Why I am sharing this is because when we come here knowing we have drinking problems, the "shut off valve" malfunctions for us. I've shared this on other threads but when it works sometimes and not others, and I never knew when it would work and when it wouldn't, it becomes a scary thing of "what will happen the next time I unintentionally go over?"

If everyone moderating here can say they NEVER have a night of drinking more than intended because they can 100% control their drinking, then maybe moderating can work for them. I was always a big proponent in believing in it and more than anything, I know that people won't quit until they are ready. So, I always looked at moderating as taking steps in the right direction. Harm reduction for sure. But if there are episodes where folks are sneaking, hiding, going over their intended limit, having consequences (like angry spouses or children) etc. then they need to step back and take a good honest look at themselves. The frightening part for me was the times I could control it gave me the false security that I could always control it and I couldn't. Best line I heard recently was by Byrdie who stated "when I gave up my wishbone and developed a backbone I got the job done." It was finally time for me personally to give up the wishbone because I really, really wished I could be a normal drinker as we all do who find this place.

Best luck to everyone and may we all figure out what our way out is. Mine just ended up having a different ending than I expected but I'm good.

Hugs to all Eve11 (now All done drinking)/Addy :hug: