The Non-PC Zone

[YoungAtHeart]

The Non-PC Zone

Thanks for the links. You are very pursuasive about owning a gun Dets! ;-)

[Boss.man]

The Non-PC Zone

I think the placards and yelling are orchestrated by a wealthy set of corporations who speak through the mouths of talk radio.

As an employer, I pay part of the cost of health insurance for my employees. I recently made a spreadsheet to track what I paid in the past, and what future costs will be. In 2004, I paid about $17 per hour for a starting employee with a family who took home about $9 per hour. This year, I pay about $20 per hour, and the employee takes home $8 per hour. Why less? Because the insurance co-pay keeps rising, and eating up the pay. In five years, I'll pay about $23 per hour, but the employee will take home about $6 per hour. This is without regard to any reform, because reform is not slated to take effect for four years.

So to me, the placards are a jobs issue. Am I really able to pay $23 per hour to someone just starting a new career? Sure! As long as my customers will pay more for less. What do you think? As a customer, are you willing to bear the weight of my own health insurance policy prices? Rising health insurance rates means I'm pushing automation, and less service, and cutting my entry level staff. If this effect is combined through all industries, and you'll see less opportunity for kids and career changers. Ever wonder why this economic "recovery" is job less? Easy- it costs a lot to hire someone! I and every other business owner is doing everything possible to make do with our current staff.

Looking 10-15 years out, when our kids are building their careers, what will the job market be like? It's no real problem for trained professionals who start at high pay rates. But many people start in service level jobs; call centers, paper pushers and customer service. These jobs are going to continue to be scarce as long as the employer and employee are required to pay the burden of health insurance while serving cost conscious customers.

I think any time that thoughtful education, listening and commenting gets drown out by slogans like "Keep government away from my Medicare", our democracy gets lost. Control shifts to the corporatochracy and the politicians from both parties. By encouraging ordinary Americans to shout down meaningful discussion, there is less room for sensible policies that will enable us to hand down our standard of living for our kids. I'll predict that in ten years, the children of the sign holders will pay a high price in their careers and access to health care.

[Determinator]

The Non-PC Zone

YAH, yes I'm very pro gun rights (a human rights issue) but I'm also very pro education....so please get proper training. If you need some help/advice I'm happy to assist.

Bossman, I agree. Yelling sound bites from talk radio shows at local town hall meetings is not very productive. People are obviously frustrated and as such they don't always operate in the most productive ways (peoples behavior in a bad traffic jam is a good analogy).

i'm not a big fan in insurance companies of any kind. I've been through burglaries where merchandise was damaged and then fought tooth and nail with insurance to only receive a small fraction of the replacement value, then to be promptly dumped by them. I also have a heck of a time getting health insurance because of pre existing conditions. My choice is to use HSA (health savings accounts) and I'm quite satisfied with that. and most importantly I can go to any doctor or specialist that I desire. Being able to 'shop around' for something as incredibly intimate as a doctor is critical to me, and I'd rather pay as I go in cash even if it means racking up a bill, than pay 300.00 per month to a corporation that will drop me like trash at the nearest opportunity.
So where does that leave the 'have nots' of society? those that would rather sit at home watching TV collecting unemployment checks? As much as it goes against my Darwinist sensibilities I suppose a civilized nation should make an effort to look after those folks as well. But therein we run into the illegal alien issue sucking the life out of us. It's complicated by politics and I'm a simple person with not much patience for politics which is why I left my post as an active member of the Libertarian party.

to be fair I did want to point out one thing regarding pointing the accusing finger at Obama for our statist/socialist trend. Anyone that knows me knows that I'm no fan of Obama, that being said it was Bush that began our nation into a socialist trend with his financial bail-outs and subsidies of various kinds. Both parties are the same at the very pinnacle of the elite decision-makers of the country and of the world. Just ask Henry Kissinger who really runs the show. The trend seems to be towards socialism again and I don't believe our visible elected officials have much to do with that process.

[IAD]

The Non-PC Zone

Just listened to the Town hall Meeting that Sen. Specter had in Lebonan, PA. Everyone is hot ! They don't want that Health care Bullshit........IAD. ( In tribute to you Betty Boop ! Ha! )

[IAD]

The Non-PC Zone

Your on target Det. the
right to bear arms is a consitional right !! IAD

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

i feel sorry for the folks that are yelling about not wanting reform when they have no idea what they are yelling about. they are pawns of the big insurance and drug companies. they are shooting themselves in the foot and doing the dirty work for these mega corporations who DO NOT WANT HEALTH CARE TO CHANGE ONE IOTA. if this country has the best health care in the world, why are we ranked so low in things like infant mortality and life spans? think about the word reform, don't let the talking heads fool you into believing that this is a government takeover, it is REFORM. noone will choose your dr. for you, noone will end a life before it's time. the end of life stuff is about living wills, not pulling the plug on gramma...this is not nazi germany for crying out loud.

fear mongering gets us nowhere, not to mention death threats!

apparently it was ok for bush to start an illegal war where thousands of americans died for a lie, but try and help the weak or poor (wwjd, indeed!), and it's "oh my god we hae a nazi president!!!"...it makes no sense.

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

why would corporations and mega insurance companies want people to get the best health care possible when their profits depend on sick people?

i have blue cross blue shield and i have to go to certain drs who are on their plan...why am i forced to go to dr's a company picks?

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

i have blue cross blue shield and i am fored to go to the providers on their list...why? profits?

[lucky 2.0]

The Non-PC Zone

oh boy- this really is the non-PC zone!

[dill]

The Non-PC Zone

It is wrong to assume that those protestors are all clueless pawns. I am one with them and I am not clueless, nor a pawn. There are things that need to be fixed in health care. No system is perfect. The government has a bad track record for running health care. It's completely normal for people to fear government "intervention".

I disagree that Iraq was "illegal" and why does attacking Bush on a completely different matter have to come in to play in this discussion? Bush made efforts to fix medicare, but was thwarted by an uncooperative congress. I have every reason to believe that he cares for the poor and weak every bit as much as you or I.

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

it wouldn't be gov't run health care though, it would be a mandate from the gov't to reform health care. i didnt mean people protesting are choosing to be pawns, i meant that the mega corporations who run the health care show are loving that regular folks are misunderstanding what needs to be done and are protesting against the very thing that many of the working poor in this country need, healthcare!

you are right about the bush comment, i was ranting!

i just don't understand why so many good people who care about other people in this country, would fight against the very thing that so many people NEED the most? aren't we taught to love thy neighbor and to take care of the less fortunate? well, that is what reform is about, taking from the rich (big business) and giving to the poor (us!).

peace

[Boss.man]

The Non-PC Zone

More2life, oddly enough, Oregon already has most of the reforms being proposed. Oregon HAD universal healthcare until the prior US administration shut much of it down in 2003. Oregon does not allow pre-existings. Oregon does not rate for anything other than age, sex and smoking status; I.e. if you had cancer and diabetes two years ago, your health insurance rate is the same as someone who didn't. I'm not sure how many other states have such an even handed system. Oregon implemented this plan 16 years ago (1993) and didn't fall off the map.

None of this really cost very much. Currently insurance rates rise about 9% a year. From what I recall, the original cost to implement "The Oregon Plan" was less than 9% to start with, and it quickly brought rates down for many years. The state saves A LOT of money when poor people do not use the emergency room as a primary care physician. Oregon Plan originally covered dental also. This was a huge cost savings, because when poor people get their teeth fixed, they don't land in the emergency room with abscesses. Here's some online info about it: Oregon Health Plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here in Oregon, the largest consumer of PRIVATE health insurance is still GOVERNMENT. The public employees in Oregon, primarily Oregon Public Employees Union (OPEU), comprise the largest policy. The public employees policies include all teachers in the state (K-college), all State employees, and all employees of psuedo-government private enterprises like Bonneville Power Administration and Portland's transit bus drivers. These members get 100% health insurance with no deductible and no co-pay by the employee. So the entire cost of this premium policy which insures hundreds of thousands of people is born by state taxpayers. This deal is guaranteed by union contract.

So the cost to do "nothing" means taxpayers foot the annual insurance increases 9% per year for all public employees, in addition to footing their own co-pay increases and suffering smaller wage increases as their employers shoulder the burden.

In Oregon, doing "something" meant that private insurance will increased at a far lower rate. So in this instance, the 1993 insurance reform improved our own income, our own insurance and also decreased the rate of rising taxes.

Oregon is not a study. We did it. It's not our fault that the President and party in power six years ago shut down a good portion of the program. It's very likely without regard to national politics that in 2010 we'll see a good restoration of universal healthcare in Oregon. It's proven to save money. We know it with our wallets.

I think it's most important for people to keep discussions open, and keep open to all the data that is available on the topic.

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

most people without healthcare ARE the hardworking the citizens of this country, like your parents.

NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Coverage

website is a non-partisan coalition

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

if things don't change, nobody will be able to afford healthcare, no matter who the prez is.
clearly we aren't going to change each others opinions, but i'm sure we can agree that the status quo has to go.

[peacenik]

The Non-PC Zone

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