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[Ne/Neva Eva]

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i haven't looked and I don't use that email anymore. I'll check later. No, I was just reading one day. I was really struck by the post and it's stuck with me. Your posts used to do that, too. Never meant to "catch" you, though. Although I wasn't very sensitive toward you, was I? Sorry. Hopefully I've become a bit more tactful. Probably not, though.

God this lecture is sooo boring. She's a guest lecturer and covering LandD, which is something I loved so I actually learned it pretty well the first time. Plus, this teacher made me mad last week so now I don't like her ever. Plus, she's all about natural childbirth and lemme tell you. I've seen both. I would definitely choose epidural in a hospital...And I'm hungry and need a smoke and apparently acting out. Whine. Whine. Whine. Sorry. Oh, and she's one of those antibirthcontrol crazy C....s. Five children and 7 miscarriages. Being in the south

[Lostinspace]

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Wow, I didn't know about that e-mail thing that comes with subscribing to a thread. That just makes me even more paranoid about posting here so I guess I should probably try to forget that I know that now. And ugh! How can they have an anti-birth control person as a lecturer for a health major? Regardless of one's views on birth control, some women use hormonal birth control for other (health-related) reasons. Anyway, I'll spare you my rant on that whole topic :H

So I guess I will repost what I said, then deleted, on another thread since bac has helped me in another way and it might be helpful for other people to know. Anyway, I was originally responding to a post about craving sugar and having a tendency to overdo it that goes back to childhood. Much like I'm sure many other people here, I had a propensity for overdoing not just sugar, but carbs in general, from the time I was a little kid. It was my first "addiction." I used to sneak sugary snacks from the kitchen as much as my little hands could get away with (or not - I often got in trouble for sneaking food, too).

By the time I was 14, I had become slightly overweight. My sweet tooth had started to outpace my active lifestyle. And as someone who was completely obsessed with, and immersed in, ballet, I decided this was unacceptable and went on an extremely rigid diet, losing quite a bit of weight over the course of the next couple months. When I finally caved and went off the diet, I ended up binging on sugary, carby, fatty foods to a degree that I never before would have thought possible. I was horrified by the volume of food I had just eaten, but figured I would make up for it through a lack of food over the next few days. Well, only a few days later I binged again, then again. It kept happening.

I started to panic, terrified that I was going to undo all of my hard work over the last couple months. I just couldn't seem to control myself; it was like I was possessed. So the next time I binged, I forced myself to throw up. It took a little while to get the hang of it, but I soon perfected the technique of emptying my stomach. For the next two years this became a daily habit, as much as I fought against it. Every day I would start out with the best of intentions, following my diet to the letter, only to have my willpower dissolve later in the day and end up binging and purging yet again.

Things only started to change when I began drinking at the age of 16. Alcohol did it for me in every imaginable way and quickly became my only vice - until the first time I went to rehab, that is. The rehab I went to gave us access to the cafeteria whenever we wanted. And all the leftover desserts from dinner were left there for anyone who wanted to claim them. I definitely took advantage of this and started binging and purging all over again, as though I had never stopped in the first place. This was my ongoing pattern for the next 12 years. For the most part, I've spent those years drinking like a pig, but during my brief attempts at sobriety, bulimia would always rear its ugly head.

This time getting sober, though, things are different. I'm not only not binge eating, I have no real desire to, either. The only thing that's changed is that this time I'm using baclofen. I've since read an article that points to bac's usefulness for binge eating in particular. I didn't know this going into my bac journey, but I will say that it seems to be helping me with this as well. Of course, the battle's not entirely over. There's still a very warped mindset that goes hand in hand with the eating disorder that I need to change. But I'm now in a good space to begin to work on this as well. I hope that someone, somewhere can find a little hope in what I wrote and that I didn't just lay all that out for no reason. I'm sure I'll be feeling a little naked, so to speak, as soon as I click on "post reply" :blush:

Anyway, not much else to say today. It was just another boring day at work. The busy season still hasn't hit us yet, which is pretty surprising at this point, but I'll take it. I'm in no rush to give up all my time to that job. I hope you all have a great night :l

[StuckinLA]

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Just want to pop in and share some support Lis. That's a huge post, and tough to admit and I'm sure it does feel a lot vulnerable. I was the same way as a kid - eating at least 2 bowls of sugary cereal every morning, drinking like 10 or 12 sodas a day. And like you, it stopped almost immediately when I started drinking. So many years trying to find that one chemical that fit the missing piece in my brain chemistry. Anyway, I bet you're speaking to and for people in really important ways that you'll probably never know. But thanks.

[anne1232]

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Oh, Lis. I was just like you (and Stuck- your earlier post somewhere about obsessing on sugar as a child- I laughed out loud)! I used to run home from school, get a big mixing bowl and fill it with vanilla ice cream and the drench that in chodolate syrup and mush it all together in to a soup and watch "Love, American Style" or "Dark Shadows" or whatever else there was and just eat and eat. Of course,we ate like crap in general then; the dawn of processed food. No one thought anything about it. Then, at age 14 - sweet, sweet alcohol, yes indeed, the 'missing piece.' Lis, I really hope the bac is working on this issue for you somehow- believe that it is!! This a very funny, quirky memoir/comic book that takes on the sugar issue as a child....she does not develop substance abuse(I don't think) but very bad depression with self-harm:

http://www.amazon.com/Hyperbole-Half...id=1411429737& amp;sr=1-1&keywords=hyperbole+and+a+half+unfortunate+si tuations+flawed+coping+mechanisms+mayhem+and+other +things+that+happened

I'm convinced the sugar thing is huge in the brains of us here

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Thanks so much, Lis. I'm really happy that you shared that information. I have talked to so many women on this forum who struggle with eating disorders. I would guess the majority of us, honestly. I don't have those going on, but I definitely have some stuff going on about food. It's hard for me to say whether it's weird or not... I am smirking now, because after sitting here thinking about it for just a moment I realized that everyone I know would say my eating habits and food preferences are weird. And I can definitely relate to the sugar thing. I have distinct memories of eating as many eclairs as I could afford from the deli on the way home from middle school. Secretly, so there must have been something about that...And I still eat an inordinate amount of chocolate on a regular basis.

I don't really understand the nature of the shame that evolves from having an eating disorder. But I do recognize it. It's one and the same...A part of what the chemical dysfunction is in our brains. Of that I am absolutely and totally sure. As I said before, the science is not conclusive about the connection between eating disorders and addiction, yet. But there's enough other stuff out there that makes me think there is a scientific connection. No one has done the research yet, because...I don't know why. Did you know that people who have gastric bypass are extremely likely to develop a different addiction? I think the rate of alcoholism is something like 40%. (I'll back it up, but I'm pretty sure it's an easy google search and I'm short on time.) That might even be a conservative guesstimate.

Anyway. I think sharing that is good for you, if you let it be. And definitely of benefit if it gets people talking about it. I have to admit, it's given me a bit of food for thought related to my own early adolescence and sugar. (Pun intended.)

Back to the books for me.

[Rand all]

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IMO NE eating disorders and addiction are totally linked. Maybe more so in extreme cases like bulimia and anorexia. Extreme cases of anorexia are some of the most heartbreaking mental illness cases your ever like to witness.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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I really wish I had just posted this:

It is incredibly brave that you posted about that. I'm sorry it's so painful for you.

:l:l:l

[YouKayBee]

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I haven't seen your post but have seen subsequent ones. I have an eating disorder and much of your story resonates with me too. I used to eat a lot at birthday parties, buffets that sort of thing, loved potatoes but had sweets and sugar mostly restricted at home. I developed bulimia during a stressful period in my teens, initially like you I restricted my eating in order to lose a lot of weight, then couldn't control myself when I started eating again, so started purging. This went into decline as my alcohol intake took over, but I did often eat a lot of junk food during alcohol binges. Since reducing then quitting alcohol my eating disorder has returned and the scary thing is I recognise that my behaviours with food mirror my behaviour with alcohol - I'll got to different shops to buy chocolate so they don't question why I'm buying 3-4 150gram bars at a time, then more later in the day. I hide food in the sort of shove it under some healthy looking stuff in my bag, and eat it when on my own - I rarely if ever binge when I'm with anyone else. I've also gotten junk food discarded from previous binge(I don't keep binge food in the house) out of the bin. I also get a drunk feeling when consuming large amounts of carbs, I do like pizza, crisps, chips, bread that sort of thing too.

I didn't get on with baclofen, I found TSM/Naltrexone much more suited to me and it did indeed enable me to firstly drink within safe levels, then finally quit. My approach currently is to use both a controlled accountable dietary plan, plus a mixture of therapies including directive and non-directive approaches. I have tried using naltrexone before binges and believe there is a group looking into how a derivative of naltrexone can be used to reduce overeating, but my GP won't prescribe for this application and because I have no plans to drink I sort of don't want to be still using Naltrexone.

Anyway hope this helps in some way. In summary I lost myself in alcohol and I feel I can do the same in food. Alcohol is definitely the most dangerous of the two, but removing the drink doesn't necessarily make things right underneath. I found this sad at first, then I thought well at least I know what it is, and I can do something about it. I'll read some more of your thread if that's ok.

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks so much guys for the support and for relating your own experiences. I was kinda scared to come back here after I posted - both afraid of the responses (or lack thereof and the extreme awkwardness I would have felt) and afraid that I was going to chicken out and end up deleting everything a second time. It was really nice to see positive responses.

And yeah, the link between eating disorders, and "sugar abuse" more generally, and alcoholism is definitely interesting. It makes me think back to when I was going to AA meetings and people would suggest eating a little candy when you're having a craving. Personally, I always hated that advice, but that's only because of my own issues. I knew that for me, eating a little candy would inevitably be followed by eating a LOT of everything else, then hanging my head over a toilet.

I know that sugar, actually all carbs, activate the same reward pathways in the brain that alcohol does, but I have to believe that there's more to it than that. At least I'd like to believe that us humans don't act solely according to such simplistic motivations. It would be interesting to see some research done in this area.

Thanks for the book recommendation, anne, I'll check it out. I could definitely use a humorous read. And that's really fascinating about gastric bypass patients, Ne. I never heard about that. I'll have to do some investigating.

Thank you so much for being willing to share your own struggles, YouKayBee. I'm so sorry it's still an ongoing battle with you. I know all too well what you mean about getting a drunk-like feeling while binging and going out of your way to hide it from everyone. I really hope that the therapies you're using can help. Are either of them using cognitive behavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy? I never pursued these myself since the bac has at least gotten the behavior under control, and now it's just a matter of working on the mindset. But I've read that these are the most tried and true methods for helping with bulimia. I wish you the best as you tackle this beast, and feel free to PM me any time if you want to talk :l

Well, unfortunately I gotta run since I'm once again doing this at work instead of y'know, working. I'll be back later. I hope you all have a good one :l

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks so much guys for the support and for relating your own experiences. I was kinda scared to come back here after I posted - both afraid of the responses (or lack thereof and the extreme awkwardness I would have felt) and afraid that I was going to chicken out and end up deleting everything a second time. It was really nice to see positive responses.

And yeah, the link between eating disorders, and "sugar abuse" more generally, and alcoholism is definitely interesting. It makes me think back to when I was going to AA meetings and people would suggest eating a little candy when you're having a craving. Personally, I always hated that advice, but that's only because of my own issues. I knew that for me, eating a little candy would inevitably be followed by eating a LOT of everything else, then hanging my head over a toilet.

I know that sugar, actually all carbs, activate the same reward pathways in the brain that alcohol does, but I have to believe that there's more to it than that. At least I'd like to believe that us humans don't act solely according to such simplistic motivations. It would be interesting to see some research done in this area.

Thanks for the book recommendation, anne, I'll check it out. I could definitely use a humorous read. And that's really fascinating about gastric bypass patients, Ne. I never heard about that. I'll have to do some investigating.

Thank you so much for being willing to share your own struggles, YouKayBee. I'm so sorry it's still an ongoing battle with you. I know all too well what you mean about getting a drunk-like feeling while binging and going out of your way to hide it from everyone. I really hope that the therapies you're using can help. Are either of them using cognitive behavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy? I never pursued these myself since the bac has at least gotten the behavior under control, and now it's just a matter of working on the mindset. But I've read that these are the most tried and true methods for helping with bulimia. I wish you the best as you tackle this beast, and feel free to PM me any time if you want to talk :l :l

Well, unfortunately I gotta run since I'm once again doing this at work instead of y'know, working. I'll be back later. I hope you all have a good one :l

[Rand all]

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I had great success with Nal UKB back 2012. Right from the off bat it dramatically dropped my units. At the time I wasn't drinking no were near as much as I ended up drinking after but I was using a lot of cocaine at the time and I just wanted to stop drinking as that's what started the coke binges. I found it didn't effect my craving the way I would have liked but I couldn't for the life of me could get past 3-4 beer. I also lost a shit load of weight. I was down to under 170lb. All in all it was a good 6 months. A couple of circumstances stunted my progress. To this day I thin benzos had a part to play I know there's no scientific research to certify this but I know for a fact they had a part to play in my down fall.

TSM needs you to really take a leap of the process as it can take upwards of 6 months to a year but there's no doubt that it works's. I'm fully behind the science. I always found alcohol as the greatest painkiller I'd ever used even better than opiates so the opiate blocking effect always made total sense to me.

I'm glad you still post about TSM as it seem to be neglected somewhat over the last year or two on her. I had a conversation with Evan over the phone once and although it eventually didn't work out for him if anyone knew his shit it was Evan and he was fully behind it. I truly miss him

The two great mental illness that scare the living shit out of me are anorexia and clinical depression. I've suffered serious depression from benzo withdrawal and recreational drugs but only ever for no more that 2-3 weeks but to any one who suffers this illness long term my heart goes out to them. My mums good friend suffers fron manic depression and shes been to hell and back.

[Rand all]

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It makes me so angry when you hear people painting eating disorders as just people not happy with their body image. It can be a devastating disease. Once it gets a grip on you its no more about lossing weight . It totally consumes you. Its utter control that has them in their grip. A total addiction. You se young girls at 90lb in a total freefall knowing that they are at deaths door and all they can think about is lossing more weight. Its f**king heart breaking. Those pro ana sites truly discust me.

[YouKayBee]

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Rand all;n2514069 wrote: It makes me so angry when you hear people painting eating disorders as just people not happy with their body image. It can be a devastating disease. Once it gets a grip on you its no more about lossing weight . It totally consumes you. Its utter control that has them in their grip. A total addiction. You se young girls at 90lb in a total freefall knowing that they are at deaths door and all they can think about is lossing more weight. Its f**king heart breaking. Those pro ana sites truly discust me.

I find it patronising. Quite a few people would say "it all started with Twiggy, I blame it on Twiggy", or "You look fine love, you're attractive and intelligent". Nooooo, it's not that simple, it's a distraction, a coping mechanism(and I am not sure I actually like that phrase). A GP (Dr) told me I'd grow out of it.

I've also find when I reveal my eating issues, others start to talk about theirs and they are a lot more common than is thought. Talking to another bulimic is how I found out about laxatives and salt water.............not good.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/

Prepare to lose a couple of hours...

[Lostinspace]

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Thanks for the link, Ne. I have those hours to lose tonight And you're right, YouKayBee. It really is patronizing and I think it adds to the reluctance of many people (myself included) to confide in others and seek help for it. And to have a doctor tell you you'll grow out of it?! I'm sorry that happened to you. The ignorance surrounding eating disorders can be really frustrating. I think there is slowly starting to be a greater awareness that it's not a problem that's limited to teenage girls, that both men and women of all ages can be affected. But most people still don't seem to understand that it's not just an out of control diet or a way of losing or maintaining your weight.

And to follow up on the earlier discussion of the link with alcoholism, I did a little research and found that around 35% of people with substance use disorders also have an eating disorder. Quite honestly, that figure sounds outrageously high to me. Then again, I didn't exactly walk around rehabs and AA meetings announcing to people that I was bulimic. I did everything in my power to hide it from everyone in my life. It just makes me wonder if this is such a widely known problem, why don't addiction treatment programs do anything to address it or have any support systems in place?

On another, completely unrelated note, I'm really not liking the new iOS 8 operating system. I installed it on my iPhone the other day because, hey it's free, so why not? Plus, it's supposed to have fixed some security issues. Well, it's sucking the life out of my battery. When I posted here from work earlier today, my phone went from 100% power down to 69%. I was on my phone reading and posting for maybe 20 minutes at most. After looking up a few other things online throughout the day, I was down to 45% power. So now I'm typing this while tethered to my charger. I guess the moral of this boring story is don't install iOS 8 if you have an old iPhone! Anyway, I hope you all have a great night :l