Moderating is so subjective!

[Waiting for his way out]

Moderating is so subjective!

LVT25, a butter story !
Last year in October I went back to visit my family for a nice big wedding. While having lunch with my father and sister, I reached for the good European butter I miss so much.. generously spreading it on my crunchy bread...
Horrified both my father and sister (we get along very well) exclaimed "you should not put so much butter on your bread, it is not good for you"
Really??? when the two of you stop smoking like it is going out of style, i will stop putting too much butter on my bread. I loved the silence that followed !
The point is we all have something we need to watch for. Everyone handles their problem as it is best for them, courage and determination are not easy. Most of us struggle everyday to keep them by our side.

[frances]

Moderating is so subjective!

LVT25 what you said is where I'd like to be, and I do think it may be possible. I'm on day 13 today, and it's going very well in my opinion. My pattern was 9 days AF, 3 days moderate, 4 days AF,then 1 day moderate. Since then, 13 days and I'm going for 30 AF just because it seems to be recommended by so many. Then I'm going to try to let myself drink moderately. Doesn't mean I'm doing to drink on day 31. I'm hoping that will mean being able to have a couple of drinks with friends when the time arises, and then be able to go for who knows how long in between the next time I drink. And I'd like to be able to have a nice glass of wine with dinner on occasion. But not every night which is where I was. I'm actually starting to feel like 'not drinking' is becoming sort of normal. Though I do come here every day and I am definitely thinking about it a lot so it's not like it's totally out of my mind. I guess that's just how it's going to be, for some time anyway. I find these discussions very interesting and useful.

[Heavenly]

Moderating is so subjective!

WOW .... I posted on page 2 and came back to page 7... This thread is very insightful... I normally avoid modders threads because I am an abber ... you all have pretty much covered my own thoughts .. I take some from each of you and thankyou all for the thoughts...

I am with wip in her early post of happy to be a non-drinker now, having wished and stated I wished I could be a modder. I really am glad that some of you are succeeding in your goals, and for those still trying, don't give up.

Is it not a case of recognising one's own 'psyche' or needs and aiming one's goal towards that, rather than at someone else's goal ?

[periwinkle]

Moderating is so subjective!

I would like to point out that there must be some direct correllation to the lack of the moderation success to the lack of those who actually follow the program.

RJ put the plan together and followed it. Then Brenda followed all of it. I don't recall reading that Brenda decided that she didn't want to use the topamax or the hypnotherapy cd's, and RJ said, ok try it without. And then later saying, wow, it works just as well without the drugs or cd's too!

Yet I see many posts on the forum indicating that people want to pick and choose which pieces of the program they want to use and/or eliminate. I understand that there are people who cannot use certain meds or supplements, I get that. But for the most part, I think that should be the exception rather than the rule. So, to really measure the success rate of the MWO program our control study would need to include only those following every aspect of the program. You can't truly measure it by all the "customization" going on here. Don't get me wrong, it is anyone's perogative to customize, they just should realize that the end results may vary.

periwinkle :h

[trixietrack]

Moderating is so subjective!

periwinkle;461225 wrote: I don't know WIP. It seems like if someone is successfully moderating long term but is continually being told that's not possible they may get tired of "sharing" and eventually just go away.

that is sort of what happened to me. I kept coming here to see how people were doing and kept seeing a lot of posts that were a bit discouraging in regards to moderating. I started feeling like I didn't belong because I was drinking and actually enjoying it and having a healthy life.
I felt like maybe I should just go to a different forum where negative things were not being said about alcohol.

I come back here from time to time, to see how everyone is doing and to say hi to all the people who were supportive to me, but I really feel like the negative things that are said about how 'evil' booze is are kind of harmful. quite truly they sort of triggered me into wanting to get drunk, which is not good.

I mean, I love having a glass of wine here and there. sometimes I get drunk and wake up with hangovers, that happens to a lot of people drunkards or non-drunkards.

We have to look at things logically. The reason why human beings drink is to catch a buzz.
humans like pleasure.
just an example of how a moderator thinks.


I absolutely agree that the whole thing with moderation or drinking without causing harm is relative, totally relative.

If you keep telling yourself that the booze is evil and has control over you. you are not moderating, because you have guilty feelings about drinking, and it's that guilt that gets us in trouble. I can also say that being cocky about drinking is another red flag.

The trix

[Lila]

Moderating is so subjective!

Trixie

THis is the moderation thread, and I, for one, like your input. I like drinking. I am not an alcoholic. I think I drink a little too much. I am very happy to read your post. You are right where I want to be. Can I ask, did you do the topa?

My goals? Drink a little less, and not get all sure there is wine or beer in the house; not getting caught without. Like on a Sunday, when liquor stores are closed in my state. And not let my kids grow up seeing me with my glass, or glasses of beer or wine every night. Oh,yes, and my alone days...a bit troubling, as sometimes I start early....

I have read lots of other posts, and we have all kinds here! Eve, PLEASE don't leave this site. I am glad to hear you aren't intending to.

Good thread

Lila

[Sunbeam]

Moderating is so subjective!

Eve, Thanks so much for starting this thread. It seems no one is ever "done" when the topic is moderation. I think it is important to describe one's own experience, and recognize that none of us has data regarding MWO success or failure, mods or abstaining. Respecting the choices of others is also important. Some people have the perception that people who come back here after failing were mostly trying to mod. I feel like I also see people coming back who crash after being AF for varying periods of time. I have no data on any of this, it is only my perception.

I am feeling good about my ability to continue decreasing my alcohol consumption, and I am already at a very moderate level. I have thought about no longer posting here because it does make me think about drinking. But I love all the people and do like sharing my success, so I guess you are all stuck with me for awhile longer.

[Lila]

Moderating is so subjective!

I would miss you, Sunbeam!!

[Eve11]

Moderating is so subjective!

We can all learn

Sunbeam;461978 wrote: I have thought about no longer posting here because it does make me think about drinking.

Sunbeam,
We would all miss your posts so I'm glad you're not considering that at present. My great concern is for moderators to ever leave this site.

Remember I posted earlier that I had returned to drinking after abstaining for 7 years? Well, on that 7th year I had quit going to meetings. Felt I no longer needed them. Everytime you go to an AA meeting you're thinking about your drinking I suppose. You're sharing how it wrecked havoc on your life. You're also helping new members...cheering their accomplishment of day 1 or 7 or 30. But what kept me from drinking I suppose was that ongoing support. When I quit going to meetings and didn't have that support I think it was just so easy to have a setback here and there and as they called it the "stinkin thinkin" crept into my head too easily. "I was never that bad when I drank!" etc. and before I knew it I was having a glass of wine with a family dinner one night. That led to my first girl's night out where the old pattern of not being able to stop led me into getting too drunk and too stupid that first real night of partying.

I really feel we always need the support here to keep on the moderating or AF path.

The big difference from AA and this site is we're not all on the same page as there are people abstaining and those trying to moderate. The beauty of this site is that belief that maybe moderating can work. Many just aren't ready for that thought of "I can never have a drink AGAIN for the rest of my life?" One day at a time or not it's a hard pill to swallow for many people. So, I think many folks come for help here with that belief that they can moderate. Some will find they can. Some will find they can't. Some will find they probably could but they end up liking the AF life better once they try it and they choose to remain on that path.

Overall I think we can still all learn from each other and things can be positive always.

In AA there is NO support that you can moderate. On this journey with MWO there may not be 100% support from abstainers that modders would like to see but just remember the trick modders. Don't take it personal!! If someone posts something that you as a modder don't agree with, respect their opinion and move on. There are plenty of modders to support each other. And we really can learn from each other, that's for sure!
Hugs to you all!
Eve:l

[nancy]

Moderating is so subjective!

Yes, I can't relate to the demonization of alcohol either.

Some of the other points brought up here are good.

Periwinkle, you are probably right that people may be failing because they are not doing the program as directed. But it's very hard to do the whole program. The CD program takes way too long. A lot of people try topa and have nasty side effects. Hair loss anyone? Loss of cognitive ability? I would never take it for those reasons. I really am happy for those who can tolerate it, particularly at low doses. Also, if it's a matter of life and death and all else fails, seems worthy of trying. Or if like periwinkle, you have a condition it works for like migraine. I seem to remember reading it might be good for eating disorders too.

Others don't want to try meds at all. Ironically, a lot of people here are into health and like more natural remedies, all the while boozing it up!

I guess this goes to WIP's point that the program doesn't deliver on promises because it is anything but easy. I am not saying this to detract from RJ. She seems amazing to me and she deserves a hell of a lot of credit for pioneering such a female-friendly. forward-thinking program. But it needs work.

[zed]

Moderating is so subjective!

Thanks!

Just came upon this thread, so great... so many good inputs, experiences and points to ponder. Thanks to whoever started this and for all of you for contributing.

It's 3.45 in the afternoon, I'm at work... and I got the "itch" going on. It's funny, coz just this morning I was on here to report on the Mod Squad how good I was feeling/ doing... and that I was surprised by my lack of craving... feeling like this was a piece of cake...

And here I am, scarcely 5 hours later, back here for my support (have some free time), feeling like I need a you-know-what this evening. LOL!!

I guess the deal for me at this point in my very early life of Moderation is quite simple:

When I get this feeling, it's not a question about having just one drink or two. So I have to stay AF tonight. It's other that, or it's the whole bottle. Blitz-out.

SO... I'm going to get through the rest of the afternoon, go home, and get to the gym to sweat this feeling out.

Cheers for all the very interesting points and experiences guys. Really enjoying the posts and taking a lot of support and value from all of you who are so much more experienced than I am!

[Eve11]

Moderating is so subjective!

Gang,
I learned how to blog!! Feel like such a newbie with all of this computer stuff but I'm forging my way.
An easy way to get to my blogs is to just hit blog in the right upper-hand column of my posts.

AF the last 2 days. Serious talk with hubby about how this AL just isn't that much fun. We both see a difference with sleeping (not as well rested) or as motivated the next day. As a gal with a history of panic attacks (infrequent but when they happen it's an absolute nightmare) I think too much AL leads to anxiety as AL is a depressant. Actually notice a little depression the next day as well. SO...will I ever drink again? Probably. Love the taste of a fine wine with dinner. Do I want to overdrink and have hangovers, anxiety, depression?

What would you choose?
Hugs,
Eve

[zed]

Moderating is so subjective!

Choose Life dear. That's what I'm doing! Love.

[Eve11]

Moderating is so subjective!

Need to bump this one up!
Enjoy!!
It's now 5/9...many months since this was originally posted.
Zed, miss your posts and I have chosen life...a quality one with successful modding since 9/2/8.
Eve11

[DeeBee]

Moderating is so subjective!

I miss Zed!!

Thanks for the bump Eve, it's well worth another read:-)