Can you moderate?

[K9Lover]

Can you moderate?

Alcoholic;1399456 wrote: Kuya:

Maybe we should start a new thread for abstainer only newbies nest? Because if I had known that there was a unwritten rule not to post anything potentially could be construed as being pro-moderation on the day I joined the newbies nest, I wouldn't have violated that rule. And last night when I talked about moderation, that was only in response to your question.

We are all struggling. But when the rules are not written down clearly for the newbies, how were we supposed to know? And again, the reason some of us were concerned was that innocent comments were thought as promotion for moderation. Like I asked Byrdlady that day and I ask today, WHY would I want to promote that? I don't sell liquor. I do treat substance abusers but I'm not here to drum up more business.

I know that Byrdlady and k9 lover have put in time and effort and love and encouragement. And that's what I said in my post. And that's why I would love it if they continued to post.

Alco -

Thank you for your kind words. It's not necessarily a "rule" in the Nest, it's more common courtesy. When a Newbie comes in crying out for help, it's hard to help that person when another is talking about how many drinks they had the night before "and they're fine!". I am NOT talking about you...this happened quite a while ago. It was becoming more and more frequent that the Nest was more of a "Lounge" where people talked about their previous night's drinking adventures. A Newbie in dire straights does NOT need to read that. That's all. The day I see a successful long-term moderator, I will admit I was wrong. Please do not be scared off...we want you here! And one last thought, when people like Byrdie and I are singled out, keep in mind where the comments are coming from...see if those persons are reaching out to each Newbie that comes, and it's not that we feel we "own" the place, it's so that we can honestly lend our support. This is not easy, we know that, but we can help.

K9

[LibraryGirl]

Can you moderate?

It's such a touchy issue. I'm not sure I even agree anymore about abstaining for 30 days before attempting moderation. Some people are not even able to do that and may fare better modding and slowly cutting back on AL. I know dg did not do a 30 day AF stint until recently, and if I may be so bold, I believe she will say that she finally modded down to the point that she felt she could handle it. The problem with the all or nothing approach, even 30 days, is that it can set someone up for failure. How many times have we seen newbies get discouraged because they slip? I don't know the answers, I'm just thinking about the solution and maybe it's not just one way. Regardless of how a person achieves control over AL, whether through modding or abstaining, all efforts should be commended and not tamped down, even though it may be frustrating to someone who has done it differently.

Also, I do not regularly reach out to newbies, although I may post a comment in general discussion from time to time. I am not welcome in the NN, but I will direct someone there...and the only time I discuss modding with a newbie is if they ask me directly (outside of the Nest) or in the Moderating section of MWO.

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

LibraryGirl;1399513 wrote: It's such a touchy issue. I'm not sure I even agree anymore about abstaining for 30 days before attempting moderation. Some people are not even able to do that and may fare better modding and slowly cutting back on AL. I know dg did not do a 30 day AF stint until recently, and if I may be so bold, I believe she will say that she finally modded down to the point that she felt she could handle it. The problem with the all or nothing approach, even 30 days, is that it can set someone up for failure. How many times have we seen newbies get discouraged because they slip? I don't know the answers, I'm just thinking about the solution and maybe it's not just one way. Regardless of how a person achieves control over AL, whether through modding or abstaining, all efforts should be commended and not tamped down, even though it may be frustrating to someone who has done it differently.

Also, I do not regularly reach out to newbies, although I may post a comment in general discussion from time to time. I am not welcome in the NN, but I will direct someone there...and the only time I discuss modding with a newbie is if they ask me directly (outside of the Nest) or in the Moderating section of MWO.

It is SO difficult, and that is why we need to talk about it.

Allowing previous arguments to cloud the future is pointless and immature.

Perhaps we could start a tapering thread to which those newbies struggling to get past 2 and 3 days could be directed and on that thread those that moderate could take over some of the care. That way all of us are involved with helping and feel included and valued.

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Library girl:

I love eckhart tolle as well.

K9:
I'm glad I wasn't the target because I felt I was the target. There are still posts in certain threads that make me think I'm the target. But maybe I was just paranoid.

Well, maybe it was a courtesy to not to post that I had 2 drinks the night before and felt fine (I meant physically), that was probably insensitive of me. Again, it was not intentional or bragging or a promotional comment. It was out of ignorance of the culture and the needs of this specific group of individuals. Should I have just kept that to myself then? Or was the more appropriate comment I should have posted was that I was ashamed of myself that I took the 2 drinks even though I didn't feel ashamed? Or is the group saying that my problem was that i should be ashamed (i should feel a certain way) and i should have posted that? Do you see my dilemma here?

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Kuya: I second your suggestion.

[LibraryGirl]

Can you moderate?

I believe shame doesn't work. I think the all or nothing approach sets people up for shame if they "fail". It might work for some who are motivated by the fact that if they slip, it will be shameful...but it clearly doesn't work for all. For some the shame is so great that they leave here and continue drinking heavily and destructively for years before attempting to quit again. That's definitely something we've all heard here.

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

kuya;1399532 wrote: It is SO difficult, and that is why we need to talk about it.

Allowing previous arguments to cloud the future is pointless and immature.

Perhaps we could start a tapering thread to which those newbies struggling to get past 2 and 3 days could be directed and on that thread those that moderate could take over some of the care. That way all of us are involved with helping and feel included and valued.

I am reposting this to see if it resonates with people. Can we do this?

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Sure. That sounds fine w me.

[DfromCT]

Can you moderate?

Sunbeam;1399367 wrote: Learning to drink moderately, including posting with this group, helped me improve my life in regard to alcohol. I am now AF and plan to stay that way, but drinking moderately can be a helpful step in dealing with alcohol. K9 does not speak for everyone. People are entitled to ask and answer this question for themselves, especially through the use of the survey tool Eve has included on this thread.

Sunbeam, your name speaks volumes. You're shedding true light from a non-biased viewpoint.

I know that I've reached out to other newbies that I saw making the same mistake that got me run out of the NN. I told them not to post thoughts of attempting moderation in the NN out of respect, and that there was an area where discussing moderation is acceptable. How ridiculously naive of me to think that warning would be welcomed by all! :H:H I got slapped down numerous times, then accused of being a champion for Moderation when I had never even tried moderating. So those beacons of abstinence were actually telling this newbie (me) that I should be drinking! :H

I think the discussion is important. If we all don't recognize the difficulties we face regardless of whether our struggle is to be AF or moderate, then what are we looking for in the forums to begin with? The decision as to which path to take, or even if we want to go back to drinking regularly, is a very personal one, that cannot be made for any of us by anyone other than ourselves. Those that try to make that decision for any newbie don't realize that they're running many people that come here in search of an alternative to the "all or nothing" approach of alcohol treatment of the 20th century. Regardless of how well intentioned they may be, people that come here aren't looking for a "sponsor." Maybe when they come back after failing at moderation they are, but I know I would have never been here to complete week 2 had I not found the moderation boards.

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

But how about a dedicated tapering thread for those very same newbies?

They have found it hard to abstain but need to reduce, they can be aided by everyone.

Everyone's a winner!

[LibraryGirl]

Can you moderate?

Will it also bring it's own problems kuya, as in, "Are you tapering to a safe level of AL consumption or are you tapering to become abstinent?" I don't know, but I do suspect it will come under fire quickly if not immediately. I don't want to be the one to start the thread, lol.

P.S. I've seen people post in the NN about tapering in order to quit AL and it is acceptable there. At least I never saw anyone say anything negative about it. Is this going to be a thread for newbies who want to mod, or taper off? If it's about tapering off, it might be nice to have others who are doing the same thing posting together, but it is essentially not a Mod thread.

[DfromCT]

Can you moderate?

kuya;1399556 wrote:
Quote:
It is SO difficult, and that is why we need to talk about it.

Allowing previous arguments to cloud the future is pointless and immature.

Perhaps we could start a tapering thread to which those newbies struggling to get past 2 and 3 days could be directed and on that thread those that moderate could take over some of the care. That way all of us are involved with helping and feel included and valued.

I am reposting this to see if it resonates with people. Can we do this??

Maybe we should have two threads in the "Just Starting Out" area: One for newbies that are looking to moderate, another for newbies that are undecided, or intent on abstaining. That way people that want to talk about their struggles with moderation, or even their fears of failing at moderation can do so without worrying that they might rock the boat of those that are only interested in hearing about abstaining. And those that are clear that they are only willing to tolerate AF talk need not worry about what's being said in the other thread.

The Just Starting Out area is one that many of the hundreds of visitors each day that for one reason or another don't stick around are most apt to visit. I'm sure it's not 100% but I'll bet that a very significant percentage of those that come here, to the forums, but then leave without ever getting involved were brought here in hopes that they'd find people that have adopted a moderation approach to alcohol after previousy, in their eyes, drinking too much.

I do agree that we should put the past arguements behind, and have a civil discussion about this. Thanks for keeping it civil, kuya.:thanks:

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Newbies probably need very clear thread headings to direct them and instructions to direct them to the right thread. The other option is for the ones who are upset to just block people who annoy them. That's probably the easiest solution.

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Ok d from ct
Just saw ur post I was posting mine while u posted urs. Urs sounds good

[kuya]

Can you moderate?

Alcoholic;1399591 wrote: Newbies probably need very clear thread headings to direct them and instructions to direct them to the right thread. The other option is for the ones who are upset to just block people who annoy them. That's probably the easiest solution.

So .... Some clear direction, possibly in the toolbox?

Two threads NN Abstainance thread for abstaining for a set period of say 30 days with the view to moderating or abstaining in due course.

NN Tapering threadwith the view to moderating or abstaining in due course.

Sounds good.