Can you moderate?

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

RunningCourage;1390768 wrote: We meant those other drugs. Those untaxed drugs. Those are the ones that are bad for you."[/I]

Point well made. Problem with illegal booze though (remember prohibition) is people would go blind from the methanol they used in the mix. There's a killer mix that a particular ethnic group is currently making (because it's inexpensive) where they mix wood alcohol (not ethanol) from an over the counter product and mix it with water. You get drunk within minutes, the high lasts for five hours and surprisingly you don't have a hangover, but you can go blind from it and have severe life threatening gastrointestinal problems. Whenever this ethnic group is admitted to the hospital I am always looking to see if they are taking this truly poisonous concoction.
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Eve11

[Doggygirl]

Can you moderate?

nancy;1390061 wrote: I remember writing years ago on the same topic that yes, the book My Way Out encourages moderation, but as part of a program. And it always seemed to me that the key part of that program was pharmaceutical, as in Topomax. But people could not stand the side effects and they wound up trying alternatives instead.

I think that with a whole program including pharmaceutical intervention moderation is possible. It's possible otherwise but it's a lot harder. Why do we accept nicotine patches for smokers but everything with drinking is concealed and pharma aids are prohibited in AA programs? And for those who are abstinent from booze, aside from the help of Xanax or Ativan, doesn't that make you still an addict in AA's eyes? I have seen a number of abstinent members here who are on anti-anxiety meds such as these. I am not referring to the meds threads but to other parts of the site.

I think Eve has written some great posts. Never be afraid of knowledge. Fear alone won't keep you on the straight and narrow.

Medicine is now tailored to individual people. Why should addiction be any different?
And food for thought, people with obsessive food disorders are encouraged about longer times between binges. Food for thought.
The bolded part is not true of AA in my experience. I would hate for someone to read that and rule out going to AA because they are also taking a med. (Campral, Antabuse, Topa, whatever) There are millions of AA members and subsequently, differing opinions on things. I personally have found tons of meetings and people who absolutely support whatever it takes - including supporting medications - to get sober. Maybe your personal experience has been different.

Eve11;1390504 wrote: Love what you posted here FF. It is true that I have always been very concerned about leading someone astray with the notion that they can moderate when they can't and shouldn't even be attempting such a thing. However, I decided I can't try to hold everyone's hands for fear that a post of mine in the moderation section will entice someone to drink as my feeling is they shouldn't be checking a moderation site out if their goal is to come here and try to be abstinent and get support for that.

Per an article written by The Institute of Medicine (1990) it was pointed out that approximately 80% of alcoholics don't seek addiction treatment services. Advocates of the12-step model contend that these people are simply "in denial" and need to "hit bottom" before they will seek treatment. Marlatt contends (1993) that it is more likely that many of these people simply do now wish to enter treatment with all or nothing requirements and would be more compliant if offered alternatives. So, even though I stand apart from a lot of people who have studied addiction like I have (have been a nurse at a trauma hospital for 25 years where we treat a lot of addicts and alcoholics) I stand firm in my belief that offering choices is the way to go. Roberta Jewel IMO totally had it right when she wrote her book and recommended nutrition, hypnotherapy and yes...moderation. This moderation site was designed by the person who started this site with offering people a choice, abstinence or moderation... so very sad that some folks think we are so awful with how we believe.

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Eve11
Reference:

Institute of Medicine (1990) Broadening the base of treatment for
alcohol problems. Washington DC: National Academy Press.
Marlatt, G.A. Larimer, M.E., Baer, J.S. & Quigley, L.A.(1993). Harm
reduction for alcohol problems: moving beyond the controlled drinking
controversy. Behavior Therapy: 24(4), 461 - 504.

On that bolded bit - research supports your point of view.

FWIW..

DG (Doggygirl - THAT DG)

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

Doggygirl;1391417 wrote: On that bolded bit - research supports your point of view.
DG (Doggygirl - THAT DG)

Thanks Doggygirl,

Thanks for the support regarding the above. Interesting that research also shows a tremendous amount of people end up being abstinent after they attempt moderation for a while. They eventually find their own way. I am going to post a beautiful post that Sunbeam wrote regarding that issue and I know you read it because you responded to it.

I appreciate your showing the info on AA too because AA gets such a bad rap and I know that organization has helped a ton of people. Your added words of wisdom regarding the medication may entice someone to attend a meeting who may not have because they were misinformed. Really appreciate good advice from a successful long term abstainer! We are glad people like you visit our moderation site.

Big hugs to you,
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Eve11

[BondGirl]

Can you moderate?

Eve, thanks for the informative posts. It's a shame that some put there think censorship is the way to go. No one is off the hook for making their own grown-up decisions.

I left another recovery site because it left no room for those even considering modding. Even if I decide to abstain, I will still post in this section.

Incidentally, this is one girl here who's successfully modding! Another day I'll have time to type the whole story, but let me summarize by saying it was a very uncomfortable first few days during my AF period, and then after a week it was sort of... easy.

I've had maybe a couple drinks each WEEK, compared to 10+ a DAY. No cravings.

Why do I not want to quit completely? Because I enjoy it! I like the taste, the setting, the ritual, the company... It feels like chocolate cake - something I don't need or desperately crave, but do enjoy in moderation.

Not to brag, but I've never had food issues either. I think it's because unlike most of my friends, I don't feel GUILTY about food or carbs or fat grams. It's the deprivation and guilt that leads one to crave and then overindulge when the opportunity presents itself.

I've been thinking of posting my self-designed diet plan. Chocolate is required. It works.

[BondGirl]

Can you moderate?

Eve, thanks for the informative posts. It's a shame that some put there think censorship is the way to go. No one is off the hook for making their own grown-up decisions.

I left another recovery site because it left no room for those even considering modding. Even if I decide to abstain, I will still post in this section.

Incidentally, this is one girl here who's successfully modding! Another day I'll have time to type the whole story, but let me summarize by saying it was a very uncomfortable first few days during my AF period, and then after a week it was sort of... easy.

I've had maybe a couple drinks each WEEK, compared to 10+ a DAY. No cravings.

Why do I not want to quit completely? Because I enjoy it! I like the taste, the setting, the ritual, the company... It feels like chocolate cake - something I don't need or desperately crave, but do enjoy in moderation.

Not to brag, but I've never had food issues either. I think it's because unlike most of my friends, I don't feel GUILTY about food or carbs or fat grams. It's the deprivation and guilt that leads one to crave and then overindulge when the opportunity presents itself.

I've been thinking of posting my self-designed diet plan. Chocolate is required. It works.

[LibraryGirl]

Can you moderate?

I think that's probably true, Bond Girl, about food issues as well. However, I think my metabolism just went wacko because I didn't have food "issues" either. I ate "normally" and wasn't a chocoholic or a junk food junkie but I started steadily gaining until I actually *had* to try another way of eating, which happens to be low-carb right now. I don't think it's the only way to lose weight and I am considering other ways too, maybe once I've gotten closer to goal.

[SKendall]

Can you moderate?

I don't read this thread very often. Whatever works for you is great by me.

Kuya, I have to take exception to the "archaic website". You don't know the history of this site, but at some point RJ asked for subscription to "keep the lights on". We were a much smaller group then and some of us subscribed immediately. There are 2000 visitors and regulars to this forum who enjoy friendship, wisdom, experience and support, but don't subscribe. I am not taking issue with them at all, but I do take issue with folks who post, criticize, etc.

With so few subscribers it is financially very difficult to do everything that needs to be done.

Can I suggest you become a subscriber? $10.00/mo is a very small amount for everything that is offered.

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

SKendall;1395175 wrote:

There are 2000 visitors and regulars to this forum who enjoy friendship, wisdom, experience and support, but don't subscribe. With so few subscribers it is financially very difficult to do everything that needs to be done.

Can I suggest you become a subscriber? $10.00/mo is a very small amount for everything that is offered.

SKendall,

Only want to include the part of your post that resonated with me. I used to be a subscriber and being one made me feel good to know that when a desperate person found MWO for the first time, they could get the help they needed right away. Too often people are leery about paying for things that they don't know enough about so odds are most people (desperate or not) would not receive the help they needed as they wouldn't join immediately.

You have reminded me of the importance of supporting this site and I'm joining again because of your post.

p.s. Editing my post as I attended a positive lecture today and the speaker reminded us about "Pay it forward" and the fact that we all owe a payback to humanity. So I have chosen to once again support this site so newbies can always find a place to go when they are sick and tired of being sick and tired and seek online help. Can't wait for all of the processing to go through so I can get behind the scenes of MWO. Think I'll even be courageous (the lecture was about women and courage) and post a few pix in the subscriber thread. Sometimes it's nice to see faces to our names. Once again, thanks for the reminder SKendall.

:l
Eve11

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Hi everyone!

I joined MWO about 1.5 weeks ago, just right around the time of the war between abstainers and moderators broke out. But I didn't know at the time and posted what I thought was an innocent honest comment and felt attacked by some members in the newbies' nest. After I re-read this thread today and looked at the time line, I realized I unknowingly entered into a war zone mine field. I'm just glad I didn't let that deter me and I stayed regardless of what anyone thought because hey, I'm here for my health, not to justify my reasoning w anyone else. I also got the uncomfortable feeling that some members wanted to see my fail to prove their point, but thought I was just paranoid.

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one feeling this way...

[Cashregister]

Can you moderate?

Hey Alcoholic it's not you - this happens frequently - and over the years I've popped back and forth here I've always run into something of the kind. There are not "must do's" in life - there are no truths but your own truth - and don't worry if people try and knock you down that's their issue not yours. There are some people who are just fundamentalists - and it does not have to be about religion.
Stay cool you have GOT to be one of the most honest people here with that moniker!!
Cashy

[Cashregister]

Can you moderate?

Eve11;1395188 wrote: SKendall,

Only want to include the part of your post that resonated with me. I used to be a subscriber and being one made me feel good to know that when a desperate person found MWO for the first time, they could get the help they needed right away. Too often people are leery about paying for things that they don't know enough about so odds are most people (desperate or not) would not receive the help they needed as they wouldn't join immediately.

You have reminded me of the importance of supporting this site and I'm joining again because of your post.

p.s. Editing my post as I attended a positive lecture today and the speaker reminded us about "Pay it forward" and the fact that we all owe a payback to humanity. So I have chosen to once again support this site so newbies can always find a place to go when they are sick and tired of being sick and tired and seek online help. Can't wait for all of the processing to go through so I can get behind the scenes of MWO. Think I'll even be courageous (the lecture was about women and courage) and post a few pix in the subscriber thread. Sometimes it's nice to see faces to our names. Once again, thanks for the reminder SKendall.

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Eve11

And yes, subscribe if you can anyone

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

Alcoholic;1398452 wrote: I joined MWO about 1.5 weeks ago, just right around the time of the war between abstainers and moderators broke out. But I didn't know at the time and posted what I thought was an innocent honest comment and felt attacked by some members in the newbies' nest.

Alcoholic,

Sorry your timing was bad and your feelings got hurt at Newbie's Nest. Just as I stated in my post above, people eventually find MWO because they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. Although it looks like a site that supports choices, I think what has happened is that over time, most people find out they cannot moderate (if they ever attempted to do so) and Newbie's Nest has more people in it that abstain than those that moderate. I personally don't go to NN as I don't like to discuss the option of moderating to a new member as that may be the last thing they need to hear as a possibility when they are finally facing the fact that they need help for their drinking problems.

I really do feel the folks who come down hard on newbies who think they can moderate really do have the best intentions in their hearts and are just trying to look out for them. It is a huge achievement that these new members are finally facing their denial of the problems drinking has, or is creating in their lives and some folks hate to see newbies sabatoge that. I just took care of a lady today in end stage liver failure from drinking. Oh, the hospital records show she has quit drinking...but a little too late I'm afraid.

So, just as you have found the mod forum now, we just have to believe that if others really feel they can't abstain and want to give moderation a go, this site does support people testing the waters and they will eventually find us. We try not to be judgmental although I will admit I would cringe if someone said they get high when they smell mouthwash or windshield fluid and think they can moderate.

Anyway, just remember that we all have growth and learning from the negative things we experience as well as the positive. Whether people are AF or mod, or practice harm reduction and aren't sure what route they are taking, we have a great group of people here.

:l
Eve11

[Alcoholic]

Can you moderate?

Eve:

Thank you. I know you are right and they did have the best intention in mind. I was just shocked that some already predicted my failure and and I hadn't been on the site for more than 4 days! I shrugged it off since we are dealing w social media/cyber space talk, some of that is to be expected.

The vast majority of alcoholics cannot moderate. But there's a way of conveying that messaging without being condescending and dismissive of others' views. I just prefer more of people sharing information without condemning others, sort of like "serve our God, otherwise you are going to Hell" kind of language.

The way they expressed their opinions, , to borrow Romney's phrase, could have been done "'more elegantly."

Anyway, as I said before, the majority of the people post really respectful and intelligent comments so I certainly won't stop coming here just because of one or two people's opinions .

[Eve11]

Can you moderate?

Alcoholic,

This is RJ’s introduction to My Way Out and can be found on the Just Starting Out thread.

MWO is an easy to follow program to overcome dependence on alcohol. You can decide whether you want to stop drinking forever or change your habits and body chemistry so that you can drink moderately, in a controlled way. Some of you will make that decision right up front and for others, your choice will evolve over time. Both goals are achievable and My Way Out will help get you there.


With that being said, I can understand the frustration that newbies have who feel some members really come down hard on them in Newbie’s Nest. I guess with my previous explanation, I understand “why” that happens, but it still isn’t right that it does happen.

A long time member posted some valuable information that I would like to share with you and others. This information and other information about being respectful on these boards is in the Forum etiquette section.

Is everyone familiar with how the "Ignore" feature works? I would like to suggest that people use that feature with posters they don't like or agree with, rather than start "board wars" that end up needlessly upsetting many forum members. Rather than stalking posters you don't like all over the forum, and challenging them in a WAY off topic manner, why not just put that poster on Ignore? That way you never have to read and subsequently be bothered by anything they say. That way the entire forum does not have to endure the bickering and general upset.

Click on the user name in question. When their profile info comes up, look at the blue bar across the top. There is an option to "add this person to your ignore list."

I realize this might take all the fun out of it for people who are determined to FIGHT and WIN. And somehow enjoy the drama of the upset. Hopefully we are all trying to grow and mature beyond the need to do that sort of thing.

If you think a post violates the terms of service here at MWO, report it to the moderator by clicking the triangle button in the upper right corner of the post. And/or send a private message to the poster and settle your differences off the forum.

Just wanted to point out that we have options beyond stalking, jabbing, attacking, and fighting.

Hope this helps. Peace to all.
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Eve11

[Byrdlady]

Can you moderate?

As everyone is entitled to an opinion, I will share mine. The Newbie's Nest is a Sanctuary of sorts. It is a landing sight for people just starting out, who are trying to get those first awful days behind them. People who are afraid of what the future holds. It's a place for learning coping skills and to see that you can survive without AL. We do not attack people there, for any reason. EVER! We also don't sugarcoat the truth. It's a safe place that should be free of controversy, because god knows there's plenty of that in life. People see what they want to see, but please keep the NN out of your controversies. If anyone sees where there is room for improvement, please let him or her step in to make it happen. We devote HOURS to this place, and to have it attacked like this is shameful. Either be part of the solution, or stop complaining about it. Byrdlady